Switching to LEDs (MR16)

[martint999]

Hi All,

I had my house renovated and rewired about 2 years ago and have recessed lighting which are GU5.3 (MR16) 50 watt bulbs, some of these are on a dimmer and some just a normal switch.

I am starting to feel a bit energy concious and wanted to get some advice on switching to LEDs in some rooms in the house where the lights are used the most being the kitchen and living room.

I am not an electrician but can someone please offer some advice on what I need to consider when switching to LEDs.

Is it worth is as I know the costs per bulb are quite high?

Are all LEDs dimmable or do I need to get different types?

What type of wattage should I opt for?

Where is the best place to buy?

Will my circut run the LEDs, can I just swap them over?

Any help and advice would really be appreciated?

Thanks

 

[Doc Hudson]

Welcome to the forum. Technically there should be minimal problems installing LED's in any rooms where you want them. But there are a lot of things you need to consider when selecting your lamps. One is the Lumen output, the actually light intensity you are going to get. Watts is just the power consumed and will not tell you how bright they actually are. Also some spotlamps LED & Halogens have narrower beam angle than others with wider beam angles. So if you want a broader spread of light you don't want to purchase a high intensity narrow beam of light more applicable to feature highlighting. If you were looking for general room lighting a lower lumen rating with a wider angle may give you better apparent light than a higher lumen rating with a narrow beam angle. In a nutshell there are no simple short answers, but You can most certainly get something sorted.

Doc H.

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[Steve3948]

Philips do a nice Mr16 LED lamp in two versions Dim and Non Dim, they also do White and Warm White (3000k).

They will work with existing low voltage transformer, I have them in my own house.

Remember with the low load and dimmer you made need to use a Danlers Resload, if you are trying to dim 4 upwards, 1-3 should be fine.

If you get flicker when dimming fit Resload.

 

[martint999]

Philips do a nice Mr16 LED lamp in two versions Dim and Non Dim, they also do White and Warm White (3000k).They will work with existing low voltage transformer, I have them in my own house.

Remember with the low load and dimmer you made need to use a Danlers Resload, if you are trying to dim 4 upwards, 1-3 should be fine.

If you get flicker when dimming fit Resload.

Thanks for reply however i am not an elecrician so dont understand a great deal yet.

I think mylights are fire rated as they are encased in a cylindrical can when i try and take the whole thing out of he ceiling. How do i tell if this is sufficient to replace whats there with LEDs?

Thanks

 

[Ash]

Is it worth is as I know the costs per bulb are quite high?

Yes definitely

Are all LEDs dimmable or do I need to get different types?

You'll need dimmable versions which are more expensive

What type of wattage should I opt for?

You want to look at lumens rather than watts. 300lm minimum, also get 3000k warm white unless you're one of the odd weird customers who wants everything to feel cold.

Where is the best place to buy?

Proper electrical wholesalers rather than tesco/B&Q/screwfix etc who will sell you 100 lumen crap and tell you it's good enough

Will my circut run the LEDs, can I just swap them over?

Yes, if you want to dim them you will most likely need to change the dimmer you have for a trailing edge dimmer.

other things to consider. I find MR16s to be hit or miss to do with the transformers rather than the LEDs. When I have customers wanting this, I convert them to GU10s. Less headache.

 

[steptoe]

Is it worth is as I know the costs per bulb are quite high?Yes definitely

Are all LEDs dimmable or do I need to get different types?

You'll need dimmable versions which are more expensive

What type of wattage should I opt for?

You want to look at lumens rather than watts. 300lm minimum, also get 3000k warm white unless you're one of the odd weird customers who wants everything to feel cold.

Where is the best place to buy?

Proper electrical wholesalers rather than tesco/B&Q/screwfix etc who will sell you 100 lumen crap and tell you it's good enough

Will my circut run the LEDs, can I just swap them over?

Yes, if you want to dim them you will most likely need to change the dimmer you have for a trailing edge dimmer.

other things to consider. I find MR16s to be hit or miss to do with the transformers rather than the LEDs. When I have customers wanting this, I convert them to GU10s. Less headache.

I would totally disagree with that,

if you actually want some light then get either daylight, or cool white, a much truer light, and a lot less colour variation.

 

[Ash]

your average customer will dislike cool white.

The only place they might like it is in the kitchen where more light is better than atmosphere.

Putting cool white in the living room is horrible.

I've had a couple of customers put off by LED thinking that cool white was what they were. Only after showing them a warm white bulb were they finally convinced.

 

[Steve3948]

your average customer will dislike cool white.The only place they might like it is in the kitchen where more light is better than atmosphere.

Putting cool white in the living room is horrible.

I've had a couple of customers put off by LED thinking that cool white was what they were. Only after showing them a warm white bulb were they finally convinced.

True, every time we have fitted anything other than 3000k, we have dissatisfied customers saying it too white or it's too clinical.

Even have complaints with the 3000k warm white, saying it's not inviting and too cold looking, then show them a white one and they just about accept them.

 

[steptoe]

I give them a choice and let them decide, show them the 3 main colours available,

most go for the daylight when given the option.

 

[davetheglitz]

Be very careful with replacing the MR16 like for like. Some say you can use the existing transformers - but in my experience the electronic transformers generally need a 20W load and if less would cut out every so often - so needed to replace transformers with LED drivers.

I would strongly suggest converting to GU10 lamps and bypassing the transformer.

Must confess to hating MR16 lamps - low voltage so high current and only 2 small prongs to carry it. Badly thought out in my opinion.

 

[batty]

I will agree with you on this Dave. I can't see how a 20vA transformer can run a standard LED lamp. TLC do 0-60vA transformers but at

 

[Steve3948]

Trust me the Philips Mr16 LED Lamps work and I have fitted over 100 to LV transformers.

I have tried other lamps like Kosnic and they have not worked but the Philips lamp is made for a direct swap and that's why they are

 

[davetheglitz]

I don't understand why the lamp should affect the transformer rating.

Did each light have it's own transformer. If so was it rated from 0-60W? It seems your experience has been far different to mine.

 

[Steve3948]

I don't understand why the lamp should affect the transformer rating. Did each light have it's own transformer. If so was it rated from 0-60W? It seems your experience has been far different to mine.

Dave I had tried LED Mr16 lamps using the existing LV transformers with no success, they would flicker and only changing the transformers for drivers would work so not really viable.

Then I read the sales pitch on the Philips LED Mr16, saying it was manufactured as a true direct replacement for and existing halogen lamp.

Not being 100% convinced I contacted them, and was told they should work with almost all electronic low voltage transformers.

With this in mind I tried them on 6 downlights in my house and they worked perfectly with 0-60W Electronic Transformers.

A builder wanted all his changed and with over 60 I expected some issues but had none, we have just replaced another 20+ for another client and again no issues.

I have also changed the remaining ones in my house and all fine.

This is the only lamp I would use if trying to replace existing Mr16 Halogens, as I now know it works.

 

[batty]

Dave I had tried LED Mr16 lamps using the existing LV transformers with no success, they would flicker and only changing the transformers for drivers would work so not really viable.Then I read the sales pitch on the Philips LED Mr16, saying it was manufactured as a true direct replacement for and existing halogen lamp.

Not being 100% convinced I contacted them, and was told they should work with almost all electronic low voltage transformers.

With this in mind I tried them on 6 downlights in my house and they worked perfectly with 0-60W Electronic Transformers.

A builder wanted all his changed and with over 60 I expected some issues but had none, we have just replaced another 20+ for another client and again no issues.

I have also changed the remaining ones in my house and all fine.

This is the only lamp I would use if trying to replace existing Mr16 Halogens, as I now know it works.

You say 0-60 watt transformer is that a mistake?

 

[steptoe]

some Tx have a minimum load batty, a lot of them wont/cannot go below 20w [for instance]

 

[batty]

That's why I was asking if the ones he has are 0-60 watt. As you say most are 20-60 Va so a 3 to 7 watt load cannot work correctly. I have only fitted one lot that a customer provided. These were Aurora ones and they were fitted to standard 20-60 watt trannies. The instructions said they should work but some now and then would flicker. I honestly think the GU10 ones are the better way.I suppose you could do away with the trannies and put GU10 lamp holders in.

 

[steptoe]

batty, I agree, I think GU10 is better, but, then again, I never really liked ELV halogen either.......

 

[Steve3948]

That's why I was asking if the ones he has are 0-60 watt. As you say most are 20-60 Va so a 3 to 7 watt load cannot work correctly. I have only fitted one lot that a customer provided. These were Aurora ones and they were fitted to standard 20-60 watt trannies. The instructions said they should work but some now and then would flicker. I honestly think the GU10 ones are the better way.I suppose you could do away with the trannies and put GU10 lamp holders in.

Yeah sorry my error typo missed the 2 and did not spot it should be 20-60W.

The Philips have been designed to work as a straight swap, others are designed to work with a driver.

 

[brummydave]

I've found a fair number of MR16 LED bulbs work with existing transformers - but they just don't last very long. Lamplife has been reduced to less than 4000 hours!

I always prefer GU10 models. Much more simple.

Also, there's a massive variation in price often related to longevity. In a commercial setting (ie on 12hours a day or more), a lamp that does 40-75 thousand hours will pay back in reduced maintenance costs as well as the energy saving etc.

I find in domestic settings a cheaper lamp with a 20000 lamp life is much more suitable. That still gives 10 years at 5 hours a day use!

In ten years, the wiring will need looking at, there'll probably be many other options for lighting, and tastes will have changed too!

I replaced 19 halogen lamps in a kitchen & hall last year. Power consumption went from 950W to 63W! The cost of the lamps will be covered by the reduction in energy consumption in less than two years. So there's 8 years of savings on top (roughly