The ongoing "racist" campaign continues.

[Murdoch]

deleted. Wrong thread!

 

[Evans Electric]

Just out of interest as I didn’t grow up in the UK, do they teach much about the slave trade? 

No , nothing  at all ,  British history , as taught in schools  , is selective  to say the least .    

All the kings were presented  as almost on the right hand of God  ,   lovely chaps  with  the  welfare of the peasants as their main driving force .         As opposed  to being a bunch of gangsters who carved up the country between them ,  only ruling because they had an army and lots of weapons.

Even today you'll see  ,say ,  a documentary on the cotton industry , with it's millionaires  at one end and  child workers in the mills  etc    but no mention of the cotton coming from plantations powered by slavery .   

Don't mention  Britain supplying  arms  to the  Southern states  during the American  civil war to protect the supply of cotton .    There will be a cry for he old mill buildings to be torn down . 

 

[Geoff1946]

What I thought wrong was that history lessons I recall stopped soon after the middle ages and concentrated mostly on kings and queens etc which meant nothing to me. I don't think we ever got to the industrial revolution. We never came close to anything our parents or grandparents had experienced in the two world wars, or anything I could relate to in the history which surrounds us in buildings, etc. 

I dropped history as soon as I could, so perhaps I missed the best bits! 

I now find local, technical and industrial history fascinating but I still don't give a damn about lists of dates for kings or how many wives they had.

 

[binky]

I think some very keen campaigners have forgotten just how the world worked back when we got very good at the slave trade, like the fact the slaves were rounded up the costal African tribes, ie black people. Slavery was common practice across most of the world. of that after the time of Hawkins and Drake, Barbary pirates rounded up thousands for the white slave trade. I should think every tribe / nation / empire has utilised slavery at some point in time. Even the Vikings traded slaves to the Turks. 

What I thought wrong was that history lessons I recall stopped soon after the middle ages and concentrated mostly on kings and queens etc which meant nothing to me. I don't think we ever got to the industrial revolution. We never came close to anything our parents or grandparents had experienced in the two world wars, or anything I could relate to in the history which surrounds us in buildings, etc. 

I dropped history as soon as I could, so perhaps I missed the best bits! 

I now find local, technical and industrial history fascinating but I still don't give a damn about lists of dates for kings or how many wives they had.

History corriculum is mostly a subtle from of state control that teaches us how wonderful our 'rulers' were, Catholics are terrible, and we never lost a battle apparently.... land of hope and glory etc etc.

 

[Murdoch]

Problem with History - that its happened and you can't change it.

You can learn from it, you can't "remove" it and you can't rewrite it.

The bible is the best example of this

That's my view and my tin hat is firmly on

 

[UNG]

Problem with History - that its happened and you can't change it.

You can learn from it, you can't "remove" it and you can't rewrite it.

The bible is the best example of this

That's my view and my tin hat is firmly on

While I agree with your comments there is a PC minority of society that wouldn't

While you might not rewrite it the Bible is one document that has been in the firing line for a long time and it's "teachings and beliefs" that have been followed without change for centuries are now being questioned and pushed for change, women clergy and the same sex marriage debate to name are just a couple of the modernisation calls upon the church.

Some might suggest Jesus gay because all of his disciples were men in this day and age someone might try to push the case that he was and call for the Bible to be rewritten to reflect this but we have no way to refute that thinking that some sections of society may have so it would no doubt fall to the minority thinking and the PC brigade would no doubt capitulate for fear of causing offence or offending someone that isn't offended

It is a pity that Eric Blair died 70 years ago as I would like to know what his thoughts would have been on the current world situation given that aspects of some his books are getting closer to reality with everyday that passes

 

[Murdoch]

It is a pity that Eric Blair died 70 years ago as I would like to know what his thoughts would have been on the current world situation given that aspects of some his books are getting closer to reality with everyday that passes

I had to google him!

Never read 1984 but I don't think we are near his views , but if people want to avoid the "state" control , pretty much the only way to do this, is live and work off the land, only use cash and never pay any bills and / or loyalty cards or have a phone with a contract..... but unregistered phones can still be tracked.

 

[Evans Electric]

What I thought wrong was that history lessons I recall stopped soon after the middle ages and concentrated mostly on kings and queens etc which meant nothing to me. I don't think we ever got to the industrial revolution. We never came close to anything our parents or grandparents had experienced in the two world wars, or anything I could relate to in the history which surrounds us in buildings, etc. 

I dropped history as soon as I could, so perhaps I missed the best bits! 

I now find local, technical and industrial history fascinating but I still don't give a damn about lists of dates for kings or how many wives they had.

Those are my feelings exactly  .   The obsession with the dates  I found irksome ...as I can never remember numbers anyway .    I'm talking about  all boys Secondary Modern School here  , Grammer schools were somewhat  better methinks.  

In the third year  ( 14  -15yrs  )     we trooped into our first history lesson of the term  to find we were going back to stuff from primary school days  ,     The teacher had to leave the room for some reason  so I commented  that it was same old, same old  ,    we'd be having King  Alfred burning cakes  any minute .   There was general agreement  and when the teacher returned... I remember this clearly.... Smith at the back sticks his hand up & says  .." Please Sir , Evans says we should be further advanced now "  

" Does he now "  says Sir  " And where  does Evans think we should be then ?"     ( Remember these were the days of corporal punishment)           I suggested  why did our grandfathers have to fight a world war and why did our fathers have fight another one .     

Instead of me being trouble he said OK  he would speak to the head .  

When he returned I think he'd had a rollocking  , anyway he said  "  I spoke to the Head and I've been instructed to teach the corriculum  and nothing else "    

 

[binky]

The bible is a poor document for it has been re-written many times. There was somthing like 70 gospels originally, hence the differnt forms of Christianity that exist such as the Coptic Christians. The currentt bible was re-written by King Charles with an emphasis on his dvinity ie he was given the right to rule by god - pure propoganda, and a point I like to throw at anyone who claims the bible is the 'truth'. 

All nations colour history teaching to suite their needs. The Vikings is a good example as pointed out by Sweedy. Another little known fact is that the British army has lost more battles than it has ever won. Most of our history teaching suites Empirical behavious we would now regard as genocide, theft and murder. This shoule be taught, along with a greater emphasis on how international relations affected technology, trade and many other things.

 

[Evans Electric]

When you boil it down  ,  world history is about lots of people killing lots of other people .  

 

[Andy™]

When you boil it down  ,  world history is about lots of people killing lots of other people .  

well thats about the most accurate description of history as you can get. and its still happening

 

[binky]

When you boil it down  ,  world history is about lots of people killing lots of other people .  

and then justifying it..... it was my land your brother /uncle/ king promised it to me. I saw it first, sausage sucking, cheese eating,  surrender monkees don't deserve it! You worship the same god in a different way to me and your way is wrong, etc etc.

I once met an American out side the Tower of London, yapping in the queue. He had just copleted a tour of Scotland and couldn't believe how much death murder etc etc the royal family managed!  I suppose if you are brought up on Disney royal families, the truth is a little hard to digest  :^O . It's also why I'm not keen on royal families or think they dererve much respect, for they have caused the deaths of millions.

 

[revjames]

subject matter aside, for now. why has no one, not on TV in the media or anywhere, condemned the masses of people for breaking lockdown rules. No meeting in groups of 6 or more and 2 metres apart. Everyone at those protests should be getting a hefty fine. Or is that racist?

 

[Andy™]

subject matter aside, for now. why has no one, not on TV in the media or anywhere, condemned the masses of people for breaking lockdown rules. No meeting in groups of 6 or more and 2 metres apart. Everyone at those protests should be getting a hefty fine. Or is that racist?

there black. racist if you do anything

 

[revjames]

The bible is a poor document for it has been re-written many times. There was somthing like 70 gospels originally, hence the differnt forms of Christianity that exist such as the Coptic Christians. The currentt bible was re-written by King Charles with an emphasis on his dvinity ie he was given the right to rule by god - pure propoganda, and a point I like to throw at anyone who claims the bible is the 'truth'. 

All nations colour history teaching to suite their needs. The Vikings is a good example as pointed out by Sweedy. Another little known fact is that the British army has lost more battles than it has ever won. Most of our history teaching suites Empirical behavious we would now regard as genocide, theft and murder. This shoule be taught, along with a greater emphasis on how international relations affected technology, trade and many other things.

Actually it is and has been proved to be historically accurate. There were many collections of writings, and yes things like the 'Gospel of Thomas' gets wheeled out to try and disprove Christianity from time to time. The fact is the early church fathers who put together the books of the bible rejected those that did not meet certain criteria. That's why the protestant bible has no apocryphal writings included but the caholic bible does. Its not as cut and dry. The King James Bible or Authorised version was in fact brought out (but not written by) King James in 1511.

 

[kerching]

When you boil it down  ,  world history is about lots of people killing lots of other people .  

And usually caused by Religion, assets, land

 

[UNG]

I had to google him!

Never read 1984 but I don't think we are near his views , but if people want to avoid the "state" control , pretty much the only way to do this, is live and work off the land, only use cash and never pay any bills and / or loyalty cards or have a phone with a contract..... but unregistered phones can still be tracked.

You would need to read 1984 and possibly Animal Farm to better understand my comment. While I would like to think state control will never happen the world seems to be under the influence of the PC brigade who want to change anything that may offend or has offended in the past

 

[kerching]

On a lighter note ( puts flak jacket on )

Moses goes for a walk up a mountain

he hears a voice " ere you, Moses innit?  Do you want some commandments  ? "

Moses ..."Oye  Vay.      Commandments is it? How much are they?"

"THEY ARE FREE,"

"Okay, I'll take 10 then!"

 

[binky]

Actually it is and has been proved to be historically accurate. There were many collections of writings, and yes things like the 'Gospel of Thomas' gets wheeled out to try and disprove Christianity from time to time. The fact is the early church fathers who put together the books of the bible rejected those that did not meet certain criteria. That's why the protestant bible has no apocryphal writings included but the caholic bible does. Its not as cut and dry. The King James Bible or Authorised version was in fact brought out (but not written by) King James in 1511.

But KIng James tweaked it to suite his needs, did he not? 

I have been meaning to try and get versions of the original 70 odd gospels - I've always been intereted in how different they are from Matthew, Mark, Luke and John. And just these 4 have been written for different converts, you'll have to correct me if I'm wrong but Matthew was written for Jewish converts, hence cites a lot of old scriptures from Jewish prophecy and text. 

There is one other point that always gets me about 'organised religion'. We have a god of peace and love, but most of the hymns are about christain soldiers, kings of this and that, fighting the good fight, and war - call me strange but it doesn't add up  :^O

 

[apprentice87]

When it comes to the police shooting people by mistake, the uk have to be world champions..

Anyone else remember that bloke in a yellow mini that pulled up to traffic lights in the late 1970's i think it was and was shot 13 times by police!! He survived, but only thanks to the police of the day only having 38 revolvers.. S+W model 10's if anyone is interested!

john..