TT RCD's and Metal enclosures.!!!!

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Hi All,

Here is a good one!! I am busy installing a new supply. It is a three phase 100A jobbie and a TT earth.

Now then, the DNO have installed their cutout in one of their nice plastic enclosures, and all my switch gear is [or will be] in a nice IP65 metal enclosure adjacent to it.

Now, the tails are going to enter the enclosure through nylon compression glands fitted to a square nylon "plate" screwed to the side of the enclosure. [so that they all go through the same hole in the metal side, for obvious reasons]

Anyway, i would like to fit the rcd INSIDE the metal enclosure if i can, as it will be a neater job. As the tails will enter through the insulating glands, and then go straight into the rcd, it will, as far as i am concerned comply with the regs concerning this sort of thing.

What do you all think?? Would you do this yourselves, or am i inviting trouble from the meter installing muppet??

Should i play safe and put the rcd in an insulated enclosure halfway along the tails instead???

What would you all do???

Secondly, what sort of Ze do you normally get with a TT system??? What is the typical sort of reading you all get?? Reason i ask, is i have only ever installed two earth rods.

The first one i did, [at my house as an "extra" rod as part of a PME system] was 47 ohms, but the latest rod i have knocked in as part of this new installation, [i knocked in four actually as they are IN a building and i thought it best to fit the rods before the four feet of concrete went in!!] is a mere 15 ohms. That is just the one rod, when i link all four together, even though they are only about 4 foot apart, the result should be even better!!

If you are interested, i did not use any of those poxy little things you see in the electrical shops, each rod is 20mm diameter and 10 feet long. The reason i used four, even though i know that the actual Ze [or Ra if i were to measure it properly] will not be much different even with the 4 rods, as they will "overlap" as it were, was because i thought it would give a more reliable earth system, as there would be more surface area of rod in contact with the ground [and i had them for nothing!!!]

What you all think??

john...

 
The Ze Ra could be anything, depending on nature of ground, distance from substation, etc, etc.

As for the supply, I would want the RCD external to the m/c enclosure.

Suppose, at some future point, one of the tails becomes loose, and falls from its terminal.

If it were to be in contact with the m/c enclosure, and you have an Ra (ZsDB) of only 10 ohms , you`d have a fault current of.................?

approx 24A - which won`t take out the 1361s up front - but the first person to open the DB cover to see why they`d dropped a phase would get a surprise ;)

To my mind, the RCD MUST be external to the m/c enclosure to meet 7671.

KME

 
Hi All,

If i put the rcd in a plastic enclosure in the DNO meter box, are the metering people liable to throw their rattle out the pram, or do you think they will be ok?? My own meter box is CRAMMED with stuff, and they did not seem to care, but then you never know??

What you all think??

john..

 
they will throw the dummy out, they are not keen on having yours mixed with theirs. I've noticed that some meter boxes now have neatly painted squares labelled for the components that are permitted to be placed in them.

I guess that that is for the those sparks that like to rearrange the meter box to fit in their own extra component. Perhaps they issue an illegally parked ticket if you dont fit within the painted squares???

 
I guess that that is for the those sparks that like to rearrange the meter box to fit in their own extra component.
g.gif


 
Your suggestion for the rcd enclosure would meet the regs but loads of people dont know that & as others have said its better to fit a plastic box 'just in case'. What rods did you fit ?

You mention the rods will be buried under concreate,the connections should be accesible

 
Hi M107,

That is a great idea!!! Thanks for that!!

john..

---------- Post Auto-Merged at 09:16 ---------- Previous post was made at 09:12 ----------

Hi Slipshod,

The tops of the rods are sticking up out of the floor, so i can get to them!! The rods were just 20mm diameter mild steel bar. It comes in 21 foot lengths, so i just cut two in half!!

Glad i got 20mm bar, as by god they took some hammering in!!! Anyway, i hammered them in, cut off the damaged top bit caused by the hammering, drilled down the centre, tapped them M8 screwed in a bit of galvanised studding to bolt the lugs to, and 14 or 15 ohms, just for the one!!! I will connect them all together soon and see what the figure is then??

Here is the little house for the incoming supply

View attachment 2740

Here are the rods sticking through the floor..

View attachment 2741

and here is "my" side to fit the enclosure for the switchgear..

View attachment 2742

john...

 
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That is a proper wee switch room you have built there :)

Hope you don't mind me asking / hijacking the thread, is there any good practices for joining earth rods in domestic situations, I know at work we CAD weld the earth cable in a ring with a T'eed of cable going to each earth rod, just wondered how it is done in more domestic situations, do you just crimp a lug onto each cable and then just bolt them together at each rod? Do you connect them in a ring or do they just string out in a radial fashion?

 
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Hi Slipshod,Cannot see why not, the ones that the wholesalers sell are only copper plated mild steel. I can guarantee that they will rust away before mine do!!

john..
Looks good......are you going to protect the earth stud connections in any way? maybe silicon grease, denso tape etc? Moisture (condensation) has a habit of working its way down studs in tapped holes.......is there a DPC in that?

 
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Will the galv stud react with the mild steel?

4' apart, i wouldnt even have bothered, but thats just me I suppose.

Wont that create an inductive/reactive sort of loop in the ground in case of fault?

Im just thinking aloud, , ,

As for Ze, anything to infinity and beyond...

---------- Post Auto-Merged at 09:50 ---------- Previous post was made at 09:48 ----------

Oh, you "could" put the RCD in a mc enclosure, but by the time you take all the other precautions its just not worth it, either monetary or hassle wise.

 
Will the galv stud react with the mild steel? 4' apart, i wouldnt even have bothered, but thats just me I suppose.

Wont that create an inductive/reactive sort of loop in the ground in case of fault?

Im just thinking aloud, , ,

As for Ze, anything to infinity and beyond...

---------- Post Auto-Merged at 09:50 ---------- Previous post was made at 09:48 ----------

Oh, you "could" put the RCD in a mc enclosure, but by the time you take all the other precautions its just not worth it, either monetary or hassle wise.
So..........silicon grease the stud where it goes into the tapped rod, screw in the stud then fit the nut with a spring washer after debating whether to use bright zinc plated or galvanised fittings. Wipe off the excess and spray with cold galvanising spray. Don't forget your torque wrench of course.......was it Gr4.8 or 8.8 you used? Unscrew the nut as you fitted it the "wrong" way up and can't see the grade markings. Refit & torque. Paint the whole lot with black bitumen and then cover in denso tape. Have I missed anything?

(In mitigation it says "Vino D'Italia Rosso" on the bottle" and it's VERY nice!)

 
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kind off, I think, when you tighten the stud you are compressing the silicon grease out of the contact area, ridge-valley, so still metal-metal contact, maybe,? :C

 
You will Steps, but it will also keep any moisture out of the joint.

Also as I understand it the 4 rods will act as one.

I would also protect the connections with Denso paste or something similar.

 
Like Sidewinder says above, the 4 rods will indeed act as one. Spacing of rods is crucial when doing multiple rod installations, however the depth and arrangement is probably as good as you can get within a confined space.

A good read is this one by Mark Coles.

Voltimum

 
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