Typical Government

[phil d]

On the news this morning, the government are to clamp down on people doing cash jobs, why don't they clamp down on bent mp's and corrupt prime ministers?

As far back as I can remember tradesmen did "foreigners" at weekends or on days off, they helped pay for holidays or presents for Christmas, but now the government want to stop this, they reckon it costs millions of pounds in lost taxes, which they'll obviously need to collect to go towards paying this massive bung that Theresa May is giving to the DUP, to back up her corrupt government!

 I have absolutely nothing against anyone making a few quid tax free on a weekend, what I do object to is the bankers et el, who make millions without paying tax on it, mind you it reminds me of a sign that hung over the bar in a pub I frequented years ago, "thou shalt not cheat the taxman, the government hates competition".

Just about sums it up really, the rich get away with not paying taxes on a grand scale, but let the little man earn 50 quid, and the taxman is jumping all over him.

 

[Sharpend]

So will this spread to all the road side cafes/burger bars etc that deal 99% in cash? 

I think a transparent politicians expenses would generate much needed tax that's going unpaid? But the bet she won't listen to us. 

 

[phil d]

So will this spread to all the road side cafes/burger bars etc that deal 99% in cash? 

I think a transparent politicians expenses would generate much needed tax that's going unpaid? But the bet she won't listen to us. 

Agree on both points mate, I knew a bloke owned a sandwich shop, he told me there was at least a 400% profit on food, and the tax man couldn't prove how much you had earned. Lets be honest, nobody knows how many slices of bacon you put on a bacon butty do they.

 

[Murdoch]

The problem arise from the benefits system, specifically tax credits, so do lots of cash work, declare a lower income and get tax free money from the state.....

there are over 4.5 million SE in the uk. The tax evasion costs billions..... But HMRC need to change the rules so people like footballers are taxed at source, along with highly paid TV stars.....they can do a tax return later....

 

[phil d]

The problem arise from the benefits system, specifically tax credits, so do lots of cash work, declare a lower income and get tax free money from the state.....

there are over 4.5 million SE in the uk. The tax evasion costs billions..... But HMRC need to change the rules so people like footballers are taxed at source, along with highly paid TV stars.....they can do a tax return later....

I agree with you there Murdoch, there's a big difference between somebody earning a few quid here and there without paying tax, and somebody earning thousands. Same with as you say footballers and so called "celebrities" who can afford to pay people to tell them how to avoid paying tax! The irony of it is that they then claim the cost of this advice against their taxes as a business expense, talk about having your cake and eating it.

 

[Murdoch]

The U.K. Tax system is too complex... And it's at all levels. 

Uber is an employer in my eyes, so they should pay employers NI, pensions, etc

the current goverment have clamped down on civil servants, and they now can't be paid via ltd companies.. This should be extended to organisations like the BBC, councils, colleges, schools etc

 

[phil d]

The U.K. Tax system is too complex... And it's at all levels. 

Uber is an employer in my eyes, so they should pay employers NI, pensions, etc

the current goverment have clamped down on civil servants, and they now can't be paid via ltd companies.. This should be extended to organisations like the BBC, councils, colleges, schools etc

Again I agree, iirc, being self employed means having multiple sources of income, no matter how they word it, if you get most of your earnings from one place then you cannot be classed as SE. Yet another example of a company trying to circumvent our tax laws to avoid paying employers contributions, and no doubt increase their own profit margins.

 

[ProDave]

Is this really a change in the law, or enforcing the existing law?

I, like many here am self employed. It does not matter how I am paid, it all goes in my accounts and on my tax return.  Are the "cash in hand" people that they talk about those that are mainly PAYE and do a few weekend jobs?  I agree for them the tax system does not exactly encourage or make it easy for you to declare small occasional income, you don't want to register as self employed if you just do one 2 hour job but there is no other way to pay the tax that is due is there?  Perhaps everyone, including PAYE should have a tax return every year with a simple box to declare occasional income without having to formally be registered as self employed?

One simple solution might be for hmrc to issue a "self employed" identity card to everyone that is registered with them as self employed, and through an advertising campaign, encourage customers to insist on seeing that before employing a tradesman? Then they will know there's a fair chance the tax will be paid.

The main thing I got from what I saw on the news is people claiming to be "self employed" but working only for one firm like uber or similar. They want those to be classed as employees to get more NI from the employer.

 

[steptoe]

@ProDave

You can so a self assessment even if you are PAYE

Tbh, if you don't, you're mad,

I've always done one, even employed people have to buy tools and have expenses, especially if you do site work and have to make your own travel arrangements, 

 

[phil d]

Is this really a change in the law, or enforcing the existing law?

I, like many here am self employed. It does not matter how I am paid, it all goes in my accounts and on my tax return.  Are the "cash in hand" people that they talk about those that are mainly PAYE and do a few weekend jobs?  I agree for them the tax system does not exactly encourage or make it easy for you to declare small occasional income, you don't want to register as self employed if you just do one 2 hour job but there is no other way to pay the tax that is due is there?  Perhaps everyone, including PAYE should have a tax return every year with a simple box to declare occasional income without having to formally be registered as self employed?

One simple solution might be for hmrc to issue a "self employed" identity card to everyone that is registered with them as self employed, and through an advertising campaign, encourage customers to insist on seeing that before employing a tradesman? Then they will know there's a fair chance the tax will be paid.

The main thing I got from what I saw on the news is people claiming to be "self employed" but working only for one firm like uber or similar. They want those to be classed as employees to get more NI from the employer.

I think that those who work for the likes of Uber would prefer to be employed, from what I see Uber seem to be getting all the benefits. The trouble is the taxman goes after the little people first, I was talking to a retired taxman once and he was telling me that if a large company owes say 1 million in tax and they dispute it, then all their costs, accountants, solicitors etc for fighting the case can be claimed against their tax bill, so in effect the taxman gets less.

He said they are encouraged to go after the little people, as they won't usually argue, and if you get enough you'll get the million you were looking for by hitting a large group of smaller companies.

@ProDave

You can so a self assessment even if you are PAYE

Tbh, if you don't, you're mad,

I've always done one, even employed people have to buy tools and have expenses, especially if you do site work and have to make your own travel arrangements, 

Never knew that! I've spent thousands on tools over the years, obviously it isn't widely publicised is it? again a case of hmrc wanting to grab what they can but not tell you what you can claim back.

 

[Evans Electric]

They raised this a couple of years ago ...if you remember they even wrote to us all .

As said there are many avenues of cash payments that can't be traced .

General tradesmen .

Restaurants

Take aways

Taxis

Scrap merchants

Scrap cars 

Car repairs

Scrap cars for instance , who knows how much of the car was crushed and how much sold as spares?

 

[ProDave]

They raised this a couple of years ago ...if you remember they even wrote to us all .

Yes they wrote to all they have registered as self employed. What about all the PAYE people to encourage them to declare their other earnings?

As always, hit the easy target.

 

[Evans Electric]

Lets face it , its unworkable .

They cannot keep their hands off our money .

Take buying a car .

Buy car   ............................. Pay some tax

Put petrol in ........................Pay some tax

Pay road Tax.......................Pay 100% tax

Insure car ...........................Pay some tax

Buy spare parts...................Pay some tax

 

[rapparee]

Lets face it , its unworkable .

They cannot keep their hands off our money .

Take buying a car .

Buy car   ............................. Pay some tax

Put petrol in ........................Pay some tax

Pay road Tax.......................Pay 100% tax

Insure car ...........................Pay some tax

Buy spare parts...................Pay some tax

Why does your post remind me of this 

 

[binky]

Lets face it , its unworkable .

They cannot keep their hands off our money .

Take buying a car .

Buy car   ............................. Pay some tax

Put petrol in ........................Pay some tax

Pay road Tax.......................Pay 100% tax

Insure car ...........................Pay some tax

Buy spare parts...................Pay some tax

I've always had a problem with this multiple taxing regime, it just can't be efficient ergo we get charged more tax to raise the same amount of money, and lots of SE spend unpaid hours doing tax returns / accounts. And all to hide the real rate of taxation on your wages.The only upside is that even the tax dodgers at the high earnings end get caught for some tax somewhere.

What I especially don't like about this latest announcement is that it also implies all SE are cash in hand tax dodgers, which just isn't true. Quite a smear on the reputation of trades people, who are mostly honest (or at least law abiding)

 

[Sharpend]

Perhaps it's a scaremongering tactic aimed towards the new influx of SE trades persons? 

 

[Evans Electric]

I remember some years ago when the HMRC turned their spotlight on the construction industry.    Obviously with no understanding of how  the building trade functions they were demanding that builders/main contractors  should be directly employing all these workers on the site  , not understanding that they all have different functions are not required for the whole operation.   

We were not approached but another  nearby contractor was challenged about having permanent subbies .  Over a period of a year , we swapped "our"  subbies with theirs as they came available and we heard no more .

Also we had "Quotes" from our guys ...so this particular job he would do , labour only , for  say £900.00 .