Various bits of work needed... Various questions!

[barkymalarkey]

Hi all

Sorry the title's so vague...

We'll be having some work carried out on the house electrics soon. We've got an electrician doing most of the work, although I might do some of the bits that I am allowed to. But I am also doing a lot of the planning of the work to be done by the electrician. So I just need to clarify a few things if anyone wouldn't mind pitching in?

1. How can things be left in the area above ceilings / below first floor floors, if I want to leave provision for future sockets/lights to be added after some other work has been done on the house? Can excess cable be left or are there rules against that? That would be my preference. But if not, is putting a junction box in at this stage an acceptable approach so that the new light/socket can be taken from that?

2. What are the rules for wiring in lofts? Can cable be left loose with some slack (I'll want to insulate the loft at some point and would rather the cables are on top of the insulation)? Or must they be clipped and tight?

3. Can a bathroom light be fit by a DIYer? The wiring is already there, and so is the switch (outside the room). 
So it would just be putting in a new light. I know the light has to be made for bathrooms/wet areas. Just wasn't sure if it has to be an electrician who does it because of where it is. 

4. Changing single sockets to doubles with a converter. Is this allowed to be done DIY? Is it as straight forward as it looks? Anything to look out for or consider? 

5. I know it is not a simple single answer, but is there a general rule of thumb for maximum cable runs for mains rings (on 2.5mm) and lighting (on 1.5mm)? With lighting, is all of the wiring counted or just some? 

6. Does everything have to be tip top before the electrician can issue a certificate? For example, part of the house needs to be renovated, but in the meantime it is still being used. However, the consumer unit for this part of the house is going to be changed for a more modern / safer one. But at the same time, there are some things which aren't great... Some sockets would ideally be replaced. Some flooring is up and the wiring (and junction boxes) are therefore exposed. But I see little point in addressing these things now as the renovation will start soonish and any further electrical work done now will only have to be undone then. I'm guessing that means he won't be able to "sign it off" but wasn't sure... I guess if he can't he can always sign it off when the rest of the work is finished later in the year...

Any thoughts and help most gratefully appreciated. 

Cheers

 

[Murdoch]

I do many renovations and these can take many months.

Being involved from start to finish enables me to sign them off

DIY is a tricky area and its down to the relationship you build with your spark.

As for leaving loose cables above ceilings that's a big no no under the 18th edition ...

 

[Evans Electric]

Hi all

Sorry the title's so vague...

We'll be having some work carried out on the house electrics soon. We've got an electrician doing most of the work, although I might do some of the bits that I am allowed to. But I am also doing a lot of the planning of the work to be done by the electrician. So I just need to clarify a few things if anyone wouldn't mind pitching in?

1. How can things be left in the area above ceilings / below first floor floors, if I want to leave provision for future sockets/lights to be added after some other work has been done on the house? Can excess cable be left or are there rules against that? That would be my preference. But if not, is putting a junction box in at this stage an acceptable approach so that the new light/socket can be taken from that?

You can leave cable ready for future use  , your spark can sort that quite easily.

2. What are the rules for wiring in lofts? Can cable be left loose with some slack (I'll want to insulate the loft at some point and would rather the cables are on top of the insulation)? Or must they be clipped and tight?

As there is no insulation you can clip the cables in keeping with 18th edition ....ie;   a few metal clips added to hold them up  should a fire bring the ceiling down . 

3. Can a bathroom light be fit by a DIYer? The wiring is already there, and so is the switch (outside the room). 
So it would just be putting in a new light. I know the light has to be made for bathrooms/wet areas. Just wasn't sure if it has to be an electrician who does it because of where it is. 

A DIYer can do  whatever he wants ...as far as I know.     Except installing gas. 

4. Changing single sockets to doubles with a converter. Is this allowed to be done DIY? Is it as straight forward as it looks? Anything to look out for or consider? 

Yes changing accessories can be done by anyone .

Switching the power off would be good .

5. I know it is not a simple single answer, but is there a general rule of thumb for maximum cable runs for mains rings (on 2.5mm) and lighting (on 1.5mm)? With lighting, is all of the wiring counted or just some? 

There are parameters for the floor area covered by ring mains ,  for  most average 3 bed houses  I wouldn't worry about it .  

6. Does everything have to be tip top before the electrician can issue a certificate? For example, part of the house needs to be renovated, but in the meantime it is still being used. However, the consumer unit for this part of the house is going to be changed for a more modern / safer one. But at the same time, there are some things which aren't great... Some sockets would ideally be replaced. Some flooring is up and the wiring (and junction boxes) are therefore exposed. But I see little point in addressing these things now as the renovation will start soonish and any further electrical work done now will only have to be undone then. I'm guessing that means he won't be able to "sign it off" but wasn't sure... I guess if he can't he can always sign it off when the rest of the work is finished later in the year...
Sparks can issue a cert to cover the work he,s done , end of .  He,s not responsible  for what happens in the future.   
Any thoughts and help most gratefully appreciated. 

Cheers

 

[barkymalarkey]

Thanks Murdoch.  

As for leaving loose cables above ceilings that's a big no no under the 18th edition ...

Evans Electrical (thanks to you as well!) says the opposite in his reply...  Hmm, confused now!  Obviously I'll ask the electrician when he comes but was hoping to know where things stand before that.  

As there is no insulation you can clip the cables in keeping with 18th edition ....ie;   a few metal clips added to hold them up  should a fire bring the ceiling down . 

There's some insulation at present.  I was going to top it up and then just have the cables on top of the insulation.  I'm not sure if I'm right to feel this way... but it always makes me feel a bit uncomfortable having cables beneath insulation.  So is it against regs to leave them loose/unclipped?

A DIYer can do  whatever he wants ...as far as I know.

I thought there was a list of electrical work which must be done by a DIYer / competent person?  For instance, I read this last night:

https://www.mglondon.uk/blog/electrician/when-do-you-need-an-electrician/

Or have I misunderstood - can anyone do it so long as it is signed off?  Not that I'm planning to do anything beyond the very basic!!!  But can a DIYer even install a consumer unit then?

Cheers

 

[Murdoch]

Seagull27 or should I say Max Rasa ................ I remember your previous threads on forums ........ nuff said.

 

[barkymalarkey]

I'm not sure what you're getting at Murdoch, but totally respect if you don't want to respond or be a part of it.  Aside from anything else above, I was just to clarify two responses which seemed to say the opposite thing.  

And in case anyone else isn't sure about the Max Rasa and Seagull27 comment, I have posted this on other forums as well.  Is that against forum rules?

 

[Evans Electric]

There's some insulation at present.  I was going to top it up and then just have the cables on top of the insulation.  I'm not sure if I'm right to feel this way... but it always makes me feel a bit uncomfortable having cables beneath insulation.  So is it against regs to leave them loose/unclipped?

Under the latest Regs they need to have a few metallic clips to hold them up during a fire  to avoid firefighters getting entangled in them .  

If you're using 1.5mm on lighting  I can't imagine insulation causing a problem in an average house . 

I generally run shower cables above insulation .  Its up to your sparks .

Evans Electrical (thanks to you as well!) says the opposite in his reply...  Hmm, confused now!  Obviously I'll ask the electrician when he comes but was hoping to know where things stand before that.  

I'm saying the opposite because if it were my house or my job  and I wanted to add something at a later date  ....I would leave a suitable  cable  under the floor , / in the ceiling /  hanging from the ceiling/  sticking up from the floor  ....   its work in progress ... it saves getting all the flooring up again  ,  I can't imagine what is wrong with that TBH   

 

[Evans Electric]

Or have I misunderstood - can anyone do it so long as it is signed off?  Not that I'm planning to do anything beyond the very basic!!!  But can a DIYer even install a consumer unit then?

They  sell them to anyone in B&Q  ,  Wickes  etc        need I say more .         There are plenty of "know it alls" about  who can build , do the brakes on your car ,  install a gas fire  etc. 

 

[SPECIAL LOCATION]

Hi all

Sorry the title's so vague...

We'll be having some work carried out on the house electrics soon. We've got an electrician doing most of the work, although I might do some of the bits that I am allowed to. But I am also doing a lot of the planning of the work to be done by the electrician. So I just need to clarify a few things if anyone wouldn't mind pitching in?

1. How can things be left in the area above ceilings / below first floor floors, if I want to leave provision for future sockets/lights to be added after some other work has been done on the house? Can excess cable be left or are there rules against that? That would be my preference. But if not, is putting a junction box in at this stage an acceptable approach so that the new light/socket can be taken from that?

It is not uncommon for me to start some preparatory work on a job, await other trades to do some other work (e.g. plaster a wall), me do a few more bits, maybe wait again for other trades, (e.g. paint/decorate some walls, ceilings), me come back and finish of all connections terminations etc. do final testing & write certificate... 

During the mid-way stages various arrangements of temporary supplies may be implemented, which may or may not include some slack on one or more cables that will be finally clipped and fixed during the completion stages...…   

There are NO regulations stating how you may or may not progress a job whilst working toward a final completion that meets all current regulations....  

I suspect you may be getting confused about at which point a job is finished... 

Some jobs may span weeks and/or months whilst awaiting other trades..    before  the job is all finished and tested and certified!..  Guinness

2. What are the rules for wiring in lofts? Can cable be left loose with some slack (I'll want to insulate the loft at some point and would rather the cables are on top of the insulation)? Or must they be clipped and tight?

See above comment...

3. Can a bathroom light be fit by a DIYer? The wiring is already there, and so is the switch (outside the room). 
So it would just be putting in a new light. I know the light has to be made for bathrooms/wet areas. Just wasn't sure if it has to be an electrician who does it because of where it is. 

YES  Guinness

4. Changing single sockets to doubles with a converter. Is this allowed to be done DIY? Is it as straight forward as it looks? Anything to look out for or consider? 

Yes....  But  in my opinion it is a daft solution...  Far better to just fit a proper double back-box and fit a standard double socket!!  

5. I know it is not a simple single answer, but is there a general rule of thumb for maximum cable runs for mains rings (on 2.5mm) and lighting (on 1.5mm)? With lighting, is all of the wiring counted or just some? 

Yes...  Maximum permissible Zs pretty much defines this.

6. the electrician can issue a certificate? For example, part of the house needs to be renovated, but in the meantime it is still being used. However, the consumer unit for this part of the house is going to be changed for a more modern / safer one. But at the same time, there are some things which aren't great... Some sockets would ideally be replaced. Some flooring is up and the wiring (and junction boxes) are therefore exposed. But I see little point in addressing these things now as the renovation will start soonish and any further electrical work done now will only have to be undone then. I'm guessing that means he won't be able to "sign it off" but wasn't sure... I guess if he can't he can always sign it off when the rest of the work is finished later in the year...

An electrical certificate confirming liability and responsibility for design, construction and inspection & testing of the alterations itemised on the certificate will be issued once the said alterations are complete... 

There is no requirement to issue a certificate part-way through some stage of the work is still in progress...

As mentioned earlier some works can take weeks or months to complete before the final paperwork is issued..   

Any thoughts and help most gratefully appreciated. 

Cheers

Above comments in Red..

Also.. Probably easier to e-mail your questions direct to the electrician who you have employed to do most of the work...

Because there is always more than one way to achieve a required installation arrangement..

And as he/she will be the one accepting legal liability for the finished works,

they will be able to give you an answer they will be happy to sign their name in the legal declaration box of the certificate.

Its got to be quicker than faffing around on internet forums trying to second guess another electricians preferences?

I often have a few e-mails back & forth between customers about projects I am doing all or part of the work on. 

Guinness