water causing havoc

[rjb]

Today I went to a job where there has been a flood. They need to get the dehumidifier going but the sockets wouldnt work (on an rcd which kept tripping due to water). I have temporarily moved the sockets onto the non rcd side and they dont trip. My socket tester is saying they are live but when plugged in nothing is working. Any help please guys?????

 

[Andy™]

call a sparky would be a good start.

the RCD is a safety device and tripping for a reason. bypassing it does not get rid of the problem. it leaves the installation more dangerous, and you may find yourself in court for manslaughter.

 

[m4tty]

Sounds like an interesting one mate. Can't help you myself but welcome to the forum anyway

 

[rjb]

the property is empty and i will be returning before anyone else, It was an attempt to get the dehumidifier going. But thanks for not helping

 

[Andy™]

the property is empty and i will be returning before anyone else, It was an attempt to get the dehumidifier going. But thanks for not helping

whats the problem with my advice? you obviously have no idea what you are doing, and by the sounds of it, your test kit consists of a

 

[rjb]

theres no problem with your advice its just not very helpfull. Im new to this site and getting greeted by people like you isnt very good. All I want is an idea of what to look for. Its probably just water causing the problems but I wondered if anybody with more experience had any other ideas. But thanks for the abuse

 

[SPECIAL LOCATION]

Today I went to a job where there has been a flood. They need to get the dehumidifier going but the sockets wouldn't work (on an rcd which kept tripping due to water). I have temporarily moved the sockets onto the non rcd side and they dont trip. My socket tester is saying they are live but when plugged in nothing is working. Any help please guys?????

If the RCD is tripping then obviously there is a fault on the circuit.

Putting a known faulty circuit onto the Non-RCD tested side of the CU is daft to say the least...

An analogy would be..

My car's breaks are faulty.. (pads are worn right down..)

But my neighbour want to borrow the car..

So I think.. AH I will go and pump the tyres up..

That should be ok...

Then lend him a car with potentially fatal breaking accident waiting to happen!

Solutions:-

SOLVE THE CORRECT PROBLEM!!

the problem is NOT I must get the dehumidifier on...

the problem is...

I need some SAFE electrical sockets to use at the property.

so..

1) Get a proper tester that can correctly evaluate the TRUE level of damage to the electrical installation

A plug in polarity tester is NOT an appropriate tester for this sort of problem.

2a)

Identify the faulty area(s) of the circuit..

get it/them fixed..

Plug you dehumidifier onto a KNOWN good safe working circuit!

OR

2b)

get a petrol generator and power the de-humidifier off that.

Your phrase "you went to a job"..

Does this imply you are actually a qualified electrician?

If yes...

surely you grasp the urgency to do all the correct tests after probably water damage....

I personally would treat it as a new circuit and test EVERYTHING!

Then decide what can or cannot be used.

 

[Sidewinder]

rjb,

We are quite helpful and polite in here and Andy is normally, however, it seems you have taken offence at his straight to the point advice, which I cannot contradict.

The only other thing is that you may not be the next person into the property, as it may be burgled and you could with your actions end up killing the burglar, unfortunately this would be your fault.

Another scenario is that the change could cause the property to burn down, and these forensic engineers & fire investigators are pretty clued up, the insurance co would be looking for a scape goat and you would be it!

The only thing I can really add is that you turn the power off completely and start with first principles testing the faulty circuits, if you don't have the kit and the competence then you need to get someone in who does.

Insurance companies may also not pay out if the work is not undertaken by a "suitable enterprise".

Insurance companies have a statutory legal responsibility to select competent contractors if they appoint them.

 

[androiduk2002]

rjb,

Could you give us more information, was it a burst pipe flood , was it a natural disaster type flood , did the CU get wet , was it just the sockets that got wet ?

The more info the better position we will be in to advice you.

 

[SPECIAL LOCATION]

theres no problem with your advice its just not very helpfull. Im new to this site and getting greeted by people like you isnt very good. All I want is an idea of what to look for. Its probably just water causing the problems but I wondered if anybody with more experience had any other ideas. But thanks for the abuse

Andy's advice on Post#2 was actually quite factually correct and reasonable based on the information you have given...

Your opening post looks like a DIY or builders question?

Not a person experienced or knowledgeable about electrical installations...

i.e..

Removing a safety device from a circuit, that is designed to save persons from fatal electric shock...

in an area where suspect water damage is present is reckless.

Unless you are suggesting this is good SAFE working practice??

IF you have to put in a temporary supply.....

Add a separate temporary circuit direct at the fuse box

with and RCD protected socket outlet..

Providing the fuse box has been tested and verify as electrically safe.

 

[rjb]

Ok thanks for the help. Ive returned the sockets back to rcd side and the landlord said he will get his generator to power the dehumidifiers. I took advice from a fully qualified spark who told me to swap the sockets over. Im guessing not to ask for his advice in the future.

 

[SPECIAL LOCATION]

Ok thanks for the help. Ive returned the sockets back to rcd side and the landlord said he will get his generator to power the dehumidifiers. I took advice from a fully qualified spark who told me to swap the sockets over. Im guessing not to ask for his advice in the future.

uhhhhmm

Did you not ask the "fully qualified spark" how to solve your opening post question about nothing working????

or was his level of expertise exhausted???

personally I would ignore his advice.. as stated earlier posts...

Any person suggesting you remove the safety device out of a circuit, that has already tripped implying there IS an existing fault is indeed madness..

On a par with the old 'nail-in-the-fuse-holder' cuz the fuse keeps blowing!!! headbang

 

[sparkytim]

Had the same thing on call out recently.

You could easily connect in some temp sockets to a 20 Amp mcb on the RCD protected side of the Consumer Unit as long as the Consumer Unit itself has not been affected by the flood.

Leave all the other circuits OFF.

Open up ALL existing light fittings, switches and sockets i.e. drop ceiling rose covers and remove mounting screws to enable all the accessories to drain out and dry out.

You will have to leave them for a good week.

Then return and carry out continuity and Insulations tests on all circuits and if all ok, then reconnect them at the Consumer Unit.

You may find you will have to replace the worst effected parts.

 

[Sidewinder]

uhhhhmmOn a par with the old 'nail-in-the-fuse-holder' cuz the fuse keeps blowing!!! headbang

You mean they should NOT have taught me this as an apprentice?

I'm devastated!

This was a common fault finding technique in the factory as it was quick & dirty, and often quicker to rewire the faulty part than try to find the fault.

Thus the line was running again quicker, but that was before the days of electronic control systems etc.

Must remember to take those 6" nails out of my fault finding toolkit.

 

[rjb]

Thats the advice I was looking for. Thanks for your help

 

[PC Electrics]

That's as may be, but a temporary socket circuit will be a new circuit and as such requires the issue of a certificate and notification to Building Control. How do you intend to meet this legal requirement if you are not an electrician member of one of the competancy schemes?

Neither will you have appropriate insurance for carrying out this work.

Oh, and the insurance company might refuse to deal with you.

This "landlord" (you, by any chance?) should employ a competent electrician (not the chap whose advice was to remove the RCD).

 

[Andy™]

but I wondered if anybody with more experience had any other ideas. But thanks for the abuse

i have a lot more experience than you do.

and as for the fault, i could guess loads of reasons for why your plug in tester says its live but nothing works. but its probably too technical to you and you wouldnt understand it.

infact, here is one possible reason

you move L to other side but not neutral. or you didnt connected neutral. low IR between all conductors, your plug in tester and it gives you a reading through low IR N-E (only require mA to work). you plug something in, but enough current flowing through dampness to make it work.

understand that?

 

[sellers]

Kill all affected circuits.

If whole installation is affected, install temp board with temp sockets.

With a temp board in place you can dry the place out and carry out tests on the existing installation.

 

[ProDave]

the property is empty and i will be returning before anyone else, It was an attempt to get the dehumidifier going. But thanks for not helping

A safer way, would be install one new temporary radial circuit, fed from the RCD side, feeding just a double 13A socket next to the CU.

Energise this as the only live circuit to power some lights and your dehumidifier while you investigate and test the test of the circuits, which you have now disconnected.

If the sockets are damp, you need to open them all up, let them dry out, then inspect and test them to see if the cabling is recoverable. Almost certainly the socket fronts will need replacing.

EDIT

Sorry, already suggested in post #13

 

[sellers]

If the consumer unit has had any posibility of getting wet, put a temp board in, or replace mcb's you can't guarantee the inner workings of them if they have got wet.