Welders

[Apache]

Hello guys. I know I have a tool problem, but thinking of investing in a welder.

Was going to get a simple arc welder as only going to be used for joining larger stuff, but then the more I think, should I spend more and get a TIG or MIG welder?

That way I have more versatility on thinner materials.

Is there anything that I could do with an arc welder that I couldn't with a MIG?

Is TIG a good compromise?

Dunno. Have a Machine Mart VAT free until midnight.

Was thinking

http://www.machinemart.co.uk/shop/product/details/tig?da=1&TC=RV-010110131

 

[Sidewinder]

You can use TIG for as many if not more material types than you can with MMA.

MIG is easiest to learn.

MMA is probably what I use most THB.

As, these days it is almost all repair work, cast iron, extracting broken bolts etc. & MMA is definitely the best for that. IMHO.

Don't have TIG, but I will get a set as soon as I can as I have a few Aluminium jobs lined up in the background that I want to do, & I find TIG easiest for Al stuff.

Personally I found TIG the hardest to learn, mainly I think because we never had a set to practice on at work, I only ever did it at college, so it took longer to get used to it.

Once I got the hang of it then it is OK, but, then again I can Oxy-Acet weld so that helps.

 

[revjames]

Mig probably cheaper than TIG. less likely to blow holes in thinner material than stick welding. TIG handy if you want to weld aluminium etc...... just my 2p worth

I have to confess I did once 'buy' a 2nd hand MIG from the snap on van that used to frequent my workplace. I had a Rover SD1 which had rusted inner wings. I spent a couple of days fixing it (relatively easy) and then gave it back to the snap on van man.... which was easy enough since I hadnt paid for it yet

 

[apprentice87]

Hi there,

First off, forget the idea that you are going to weld aluminium on a cheap TIG set, as you need AC for aluminium and an AC/DC TIG will cost very strong money.....

Secondly, I would forget made in china stuff off ebay.... You would be much better off buying a decent secondhand set....

Thirdly, The problem with the set in machine mart, is that it is "scratch start" TIG This means that everytime you strike an arc you have already contaminated your tungsten, bad, bad idea..

If you want a set for very little more money that has more power as well as "Lift TIG" [google it] have a look here

http://www.rapidwelding.com/files/W1002903.pdf

As to what "type" of welder to buy, you will have to tell us more about exactly what you are going to be making

As Paul says, MIG is probably easiest to do, but it is also easiest to make a weld that looks nice but can be pulled off with mole grips!!

Everyone says TIG is "Very difficult" but that is because they were not taught ANY welding properly. There is only one sort of welding to learn on really, Oxy/Acetylene, [for reasons i will not bore you with] and as Paul correctly says, if you can gas weld you can tig weld, just different torch and rod angles is all!!!

Tell us some more and i will try to advise some more [i am in fact not an electrician at all, but a properly qualified welder!]

john.

 

[Apache]

I don't know, John.

I have a couple of bolts on my car that I had to cut the head off as a grease monkey with an impact wrench had rounded them off.

I paid a local chap to build me a couple of simple frames to hold targets for shooting.

Had a few cleats to weld onto my trailer.

I can't see any need to weld aluminium, but I don't have any problem owning something that could should the need ever come up.

One day I would like to buy an old Landrover and that is likely to need some welding doing.

What I want is something of reasonable quality, that is easy enough to learn. I've only ever used an arc welder before. I don't really have space or desire for 3 separate units, so it is a case of the best value for my situation.

Budget around £200, but would rather throw another hundred at that and get something that will work when I come back to it, rather than cheap crap.

Needs to run off a 13A plug

 

[apprentice87]

Shooting eh!! I used to have a firearms cert! I had a Ruger single six, a Ruger super blackhawk, a model 27 Smith and a stainless caspian arms 1911 You vets still get to play with 9mm's and 38 revolvers i think????

Anyway, back to welding; If you want to make up, say tubular 3mm wall sections, say as in making a trailer, or frames for targets, etc, you will find a MIG a LOT easier than MMA [stick] If you want to weld your car, then failing Oxy/Acet, then MIG is the way, the only way really, to go..

You could TIG everything, and have beautiful looking welds, but it is very slow, and therefore you need a bigger set as it will be "on" for longer for each inch of weld if you see what i mean, without it overheating.

I would get a decent MIG, and what makes a HUGE ENORMOUS difference, is to use the proper gas, NOT NOT NOT carbon dioxide that someone stole from a pub.

john

 

[Apache]

Something like this?

http://www.machinemart.co.uk/shop/product/details/mig151en-turbo-no-gas-mig-welder

 

[Apache]

Will be used exclusively outdoors.

 

[apprentice87]

Flux cored wire is used in industry, but then you have slightly more powerful sets!! Personally, i cannot see how flux cored wires will work in a DIY type welder, and besides, you would lose one of the things that makes MIG welding easier, not slag to get in the way. I would just get a "normal" gas shielded type machine. Ok, so you will not be able to weld in a breeze, or much of a draught come to that, but then at least you will get decent results!!

Something like that perhaps..http://www.machinemart.co.uk/shop/product/details/mig160tm-welder

I had a 160A Electra beckum welder about 30 years ago and it was absolutely superb..

john

 

[Apache]

John

Not suitable via a 13A plug and looks rather huge!

I just don't have the space.

Any thoughts on the one CB linked?

I was musing going TIG/Arc for now and seeing how I get on. I'd guess that I could 'stick weld' 90% of my current need and have a bit of an experiment with gas (TIG) and maybe add a MIG machine later on? Can you weld thin stuff using TIG?

So much to think about.

 

[Sidewinder]

Apache,

Go for a true gas type MIG.

Why do you say that it will not run off a 13A plug?

I can't see anything that indicates it would need any more than a 13A plug, remember it is a DIY machine like almost everything in Machine Mart.

App87,

CO2, (can'd do subscripts on ipad), is a valid shielding gas, it is very common in mass production, in fact it is doubtful you will find anything else TBH.

In fab shops then you will find cylinder gasses of the argoshield variety, not on production lines!

 

[apprentice87]

Hi Paul, carbon dioxide IS a valid shielding gas as you say, in fact for heavy plate it gives deeper penetration due to higher arc voltage. Problem is, DIY sets struggle to maintain the high arc voltage required...

Hi Apache, Two things put me off; One, the description is obviously "cut and pasted" from the presumably chinese makers manual. Nothing wrong with being chinese, but it does show that the seller knows absolutely nothing at all about the sets they are selling.

Two, in the "small print" they have included a load of illegal nonsense stating that the sale of goods act does not apply to them.. Does not fill me with confidence.

Why do you worry about 13A plugs?? You have a vast knowledge of electrics that know doubt strikes fear into the heart of any poor electrician that has to come to your house or vets place. Why not wire up a 32A cooker point or something??

john..

 

[Apache]

Apache,

Why do you say that it will not run off a 13A plug?

I pulled the manual online

This welder must be connected to a 230 volt (50Hz) supply, having a rated

capacity of greater than 13 amps.

A 13 Amp (BS1363) plug is not suitable for this device.

Connect the three core mains lead to a suitably fused supply through an

isolator or heavy duty plug.

I looked at an old oil filled Oxford/Pickhill welder but very heavy footprint in a shed with a wooden suspended floor.

I have a 2.5mm feed to my shed that runs about 15m. There is a spare way in the CU IIRC but having a higher rated socket would limit where else I could use it. 20A MCB in house.

I knew this wouldn't be simple. I suspect it is mainly because I am coming from a place of relative ignorance. Not exactly sure what I want but I thought I wanted a stick welder! A MIG welder that can run with flux coated wire seems cheaper and less hassle to run, and can use gas when needed.

I don't suppose a MIG/Arc welder exists?

 

[Apache]

OK - well over my original budget, but what about this baby?

http://www.migtigarc.co.uk/MIG_Welder/Thermal_Arc_Fabricator_181i/thermal_arc_fabricator_181i.html

Claims MIG TIG and arc welding. Space is limiting so don't have room for 2 units.

Anything else I'd need - gas regulator?

 

[Nicky Tesla]

you could get one of these to stick in your trouser pockets

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KAplLEjTriE

or if you want a spot welder, make your own

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wp7JF2sANsw&NR=1&feature=endscreen

 

[OnOff]

Lots of companies now claiming one unit that does the lot, e.g:

http://www.lincolnelectric.com/en-gb/support/promotions/Pages/Speedtec.aspx?WT.mc_id=EU_UK_Home_Slider_Promo_0613&utm_source=adwords&utm_medium=ppc&utm_campaign=speedtec&gclid=CKvGiOTtr7gCFfIPtAodIxYA1Q

http://www.r-techwelding.co.uk/Mig_Welder/240V_Mig_Welders/MIG_TIG_ARC_Welder

I have NO IDEA how good they are!

 

[NozSpark]

I had a cheap "Gas less" Mig years ago (for welding cars).... It was a right pain in the ****, only 2 power settings, the lowest not strong enough and the highest would just burn straight through panels.

Got rid of it quite a few years ago, but if I was to buy one now it'd have to have variable power and feed rates

 

[apprentice87]

Like the Lincoln.. I have one of their plasma cutters and it is great! Not cheap though, but should be good...

Why not go round the local BOC and see what they got in their shop?? They do a lot of lincoln stuff, might have a special offer on with any luck??

Only El Cheapo welders i ever used were Clarke ones. Now, i know "proper" welders laugh at them, but i had a clarke 160 stick welder that was great! I did have a Clarke 100 amp mig once, [someone gave it me, together with "pub" gas] but it was surprising what it could do.. My Electra Beckum 160ES was brilliant though, fair play, it was about £450 as an ex demo one in about 1986, but it was brill.

Now i got all three phase industrial stuff [Miller, Hobart and Lincoln] but my Electra was great...

You know, one of the best sets i got is an ancient AGA 330A mma set. Was 3100 about 25 years ago, but absolutely terrific, so money is not everything...

I used a 180A oxford a while back, and that was lovely to weld with, they take a lot of beating for an MMA set.

john..

 

[apprentice87]

Slight typo.. The AGA set was £100 not 3100 !!!!!!!

john

 

[Apache]

The AGA one sounds daft. I assume you have to put fuel in every day whether you want to cook weld anything or not?