Wf100 Coax For A Telephone.

[ProDave]

Following on from my Sky satellite observations in the big new build I have been doing.

When they planned the house, they were only ever going to have freesat in all but the master bedrooms.

But now they have taken sky's offer, they are going to have sky multiroom in an extra upstairs bedroom.

Now they didn't plan for this, and there's no phone point in that bedroom, and the place is virtually finished so too late to run another cable (without it looking carp)

So todays whacky suggestion / question.  There's plenty of spare runs of WF100 satellite coax built into the walls.

What would you rate the chances of using one of the spare coax's as a phone line? It would only be 2 core, so no ringer line interconnection between sockets.  But it's only needed to allow a sky box to make a call.

Would it work to save ripping the place to bits to get a proper bit of phone cable in?

 

[Steve3948]

As you can get mains network adapters to push data through your house wiring, you can also get telephone, I've had one on my living room for years, it was for the Sky hook up, needed a phone point behind TV, but did not have one, so used a mains telephone adapter, worked a treat.

 

[ProDave]

Thanks.

there's always an obvious solution.

I've heard of the wireless home plug things for extending a network but never the plain old telephone version.

so that will save a lot of messing / bodging.

 

[wozz]

Do you actually need a phone line there? I thought it was just one you needed, or you can pay sky a one off fee and you dont even need that I believe.

 

[ProDave]

For Sky multiroom each box must be connected to the phone line.  The boxes phone sky periodically to confirm they are all connected to the same phone line and therefore at the same address.

Just one sky box, and you can use it without a phone connection.

 

[wozz]

For Sky multiroom each box must be connected to the phone line.  The boxes phone sky periodically to confirm they are all connected to the same phone line and therefore at the same address.

Just one sky box, and you can use it without a phone connection.

Didnt realize that mate.

 

[Sharpend]

Well my multi room is not connected to phone line!! And I've told sky they can whistle if they think they are ripping the room apart to get line there, they never proposed the plug in adapter??

 

[Bruspark]

Hi all

To try to answer the original question there should be no problem from a telephone /sky modem point of view running circuits 2 and 5 over the screen and core of WF100, (it is decent copper cable for centre and screen)

Circuit 4 is unused domestically and circuit3 is a legacy 'tinkle-less bell' circuit not required by any modern equipment I've come across.  I can see no particular preference to put 2 or 5 on the screen so just pick one way round and go for it.  IF you hear any local radio stations etc on the line  (only likely near an AM transmitter site) then reverse the connections.

HOWEVER,  If they have BT ADSL this unbalanced cabling before the ADSL filters is likely to reduce linespeed and so I would strongly suggest wiring an ADSL filter at the point the WF100 connects to the main Telephone circuit rather than plugging it in at the bedroom end.   If theyare using Virgin Cable or have Infinity (where a whole house ADSL filter ' is installed at point of entry this won't be a problem.

The wireless phone extenders do work but are an untidy solution to a fairly rare (as I understand it also) check call.  They could try installing both boxes where the lounge phone point is at first then moving them after a week or so. 

Finally if you ran any ethernet cabling into the bedroom you could hijack two of those cores.   Disconnecting the two Brown cores will mean any connected equipment runs at 100meg  100BASE-TX (Fast Ethernet), and not 1000BASE-T gigabit.   Even running Streaming video to a TV (You tube iPlayer etc) this is unlikely to be noticed in practice on one network section as it is still the speed of the very fastest internet connections.

In either case it's not an issue for the electrical certification but leaving a note in the backbox of the mastersocket or near the router depending on the solution may save someone else a brain ache

Hope that helps

 

[Sharpend]

Nice quality post that Bru!

 

[Steve3948]

Bruspark - great post and some good information, however the "The wireless phone extenders do work but are an untidy solution" is a bit harsh as you cannot even see mine with all the other kit round the back of my TV  :^O   :^O   :^O

I have left mine in place for the odd time when we want to watch Box Office movie.

 

[SLIPSHOD & SLAPDASH]

I read Brusparks 'untidy' comment as technical, not  visual, especially as there is a co-ax that will do the job.

 

[Steve3948]

I read Brusparks 'untidy' comment as technical, not  visual, especially as there is a co-ax that will do the job.

Hahaha Ok then, that would explain it  :Blushing

 

[Bruspark]

Yep I was worrying over technical tidiness not one more box / plug-in behind the TV /AV - although families /cleaners have an uncanny knack of getting round there to unplug and yank leads out of stuff they dont understand.

It seemed from the original post that potentially all the connections / filter etc could be housed in back boxes and thus present a simpler face to the world /customer

 

[steptoe]

Hi all

To try to answer the original question there should be no problem from a telephone /sky modem point of view running circuits 2 and 5 over the screen and core of WF100, (it is decent copper cable for centre and screen)

Circuit 4 is unused domestically and circuit3 is a legacy 'tinkle-less bell' circuit not required by any modern equipment I've come across.  I can see no particular preference to put 2 or 5 on the screen so just pick one way round and go for it.  IF you hear any local radio stations etc on the line  (only likely near an AM transmitter site) then reverse the connections.

HOWEVER,  If they have BT ADSL this unbalanced cabling before the ADSL filters is likely to reduce linespeed and so I would strongly suggest wiring an ADSL filter at the point the WF100 connects to the main Telephone circuit rather than plugging it in at the bedroom end.   If theyare using Virgin Cable or have Infinity (where a whole house ADSL filter ' is installed at point of entry this won't be a problem.

The wireless phone extenders do work but are an untidy solution to a fairly rare (as I understand it also) check call.  They could try installing both boxes where the lounge phone point is at first then moving them after a week or so. 

Finally if you ran any ethernet cabling into the bedroom you could hijack two of those cores.   Disconnecting the two Brown cores will mean any connected equipment runs at 100meg  100BASE-TX (Fast Ethernet), and not 1000BASE-T gigabit.   Even running Streaming video to a TV (You tube iPlayer etc) this is unlikely to be noticed in practice on one network section as it is still the speed of the very fastest internet connections.

In either case it's not an issue for the electrical certification but leaving a note in the backbox of the mastersocket or near the router depending on the solution may save someone else a brain ache

Hope that helps

tell you what,

that has to be one of the best first posts we have had for quite some time,

thank you Bruspark   :Applaud

 

[Andy™]

few years back there were 2 phone lines in the house, both with different numbers.

Sky turns up and installs multiroom, connecting boxes to nearest phone line. each box on a different number

Few years later (probably 3), the 2nd line is disconnected. then get a letter from Sky saying that the box isnt connected to a phone line

 

[NozSpark]

I was talking to a SKY installer today and mentioned the plug in "over mains telephone" boxes, he'd used them once or twice before..

What was interesting was hearing that they don't require a telephone connection for single box installs, but tey do for multi room,,,, basically to stop you giving/selling the subsidised package deal (inc box) to someone else.

I also understood that all multi room receivers had to be connected to the same telephone line, I've even had to install an extra BT socket next to a SKY box when the customer already had one but connected to a different line

 

[ProDave]

Thanks for all the replies.

Yes capacitive loading of the coax affecting broadband was one of my concerns.  This is just a plain old twisted pair telephone install with adsl filters at each point, so nothing fancy.

But it looks like the wireless phone extender is the solution we will be using.

The sky sales person who gave them this £49 deal quietly forgot to mention the need for having all the boxes connected to the phone line.

The logistics of my customer moving out of their static caravan and into the house are a little complicated.  But in a weeks time I'll be moving the phone line over and the next day Sky are coming to connect the new boxes.  So "sky day" looks to be when they will formally be moving in.

One complication they are having is they can't find insurance until they have a completion certificate for the house.  We never had that issue, our own self build policy covered the house at whatever stage it was, and we moved in long before it was complete with a "temporary habitation certificate" from building control.  So the owners are now pushing for completion and have building control booked for some time soon as well, thoug I know there are still lots of things that need finishing.

 

[soulman]

What a great thread, bruspark that's an excellent post very informative. cheers

 

[ProDave]

Just to update the thread I was back at this job today to finish off.

I was about to pack up my tools when they said "what about the phone socket in the bedroom"

I said I thought you had agreed to use a wireless phone extender?

"Oh it's my son's bedroom, and we don't want any wireless stuff in there"  : headbang

So they are tin hat warriors then and afraid of radio waves.  I thought I'd better warn them to take their son's mobile phone off him, and stop using the cordless phones and wi fi in the house then, but bit my tongue instead.

Anyway, I've implemented the coax connected phone extension, just connecting pins 2 and 5.

It was taken from the very last phone socket on the chain, and there's probably about 10 metres of coax feeding that extra phone socket.

It seems to work, the new socket gets a dialling tone and can make a call, so that should keep the sky box happy.

And the wireless router, plugged into the master socket, still connects to the broadband, though there weren't any pc's turned on so I can't say if the speed was affected or not.