What do GAS reg say on bonding?

[ProDave]

So WE have to bond withing 600mm of point of entry or before a branch.

Scenario. Gas meter at front of house. LONG steel pipe all the way round to the back where it branches and enters the property in 2 places for the gas cooker and boiler.

I am planning to put the bond just before the branch. I can't get it to within 600mm of entry to the building without bonding after the branch.

But what will the next gas safe man say? do THEY expect the bond all the way round to the meter?

 

[Sharpend]

It’s about time the gas safe people were brought up to date with the actual electrical requirement. 

If the gas comes into the property in the yellow plastic then we don’t actually have to bond as no differing earth potential will be entering the property. 

Having said that, we usually put the bond at the meter if a new property just so it’s under their noses. 

 

[Andy™]

if its entraneous then bond at both entry points imo

 

[Ardet R]

Gas people will say it must be within 600mm of the meter because I think that is what their stuff says.

If it is extraneous then I think you are describing the correct method, though you could bond both entries looped (continuously, of course)  between them.

Gas will still think it is wrong.

I have installed extra  bonding before just to get it to where they think it should be, just to stop the arguments!

 

[Evans Electric]

I thought it was  600mm from the meter  OR  where it enters the property     ( Taking into account those external gas meters  )  

I was working at a large house last year ,  A gas man showed up to do something to the boiler ,  after 1/2 hour he  calls me into the garage  , says the bond is more than 600 from the meter    ( it was about  1mtr away)   

Gasman;    "You'll have to correct that "

Electman;    "Why I didn't put it there , I've finished now anyway "

Gasman :   " You're the electrician , didn't you see it ?"  

Electman:   " No I've not been in the garage  and I don't actually  care  where the bond is TBH  if it worries you , you do it " 

Gasman:     " Its not MY job"  

Electman     "  And I don't care so I'll leave you to sort it out "  

Classic example  of  Mr Pedantic poking  his nose in and wasting everyone's time .   

Most gas  services are yellow PVC  so won't be introducing anything into the building ....I thought the main purpose was to bond internal metalwork to the neutral  so  everything is the same potential  when the PME  neutral breaks  down . 

 

[ProDave]

What I am trying to avoid is the stupid notion of cable tying an earth wire about 10 metres along the gas pipe and round 2 corners just so I can clamp it next to the meter because the next gas man is too lazy  to walk round the corner and look.  I think I will go with a clamp just before the branch.

Isn't it about time their rules and ours said the same thing?

 

[Sharpend]

I’d just attach a label to the gas meter indicating bond position. Put our reg reference with it. 

 

[Blue Duck]

Had a weird one once where the customer was paying a monthly fee to cover a boiler breakdown, the price also included a yearly inspection.

Come inspection time, gas man had been in and noted that the bond was 1 metre from the meter and the company refused cover on this basis.

I fixed it for them but was left thinking what the fudge does it matter but regs is regs...

 

[Andy™]

What I am trying to avoid is the stupid notion of cable tying an earth wire about 10 metres along the gas pipe and round 2 corners just so I can clamp it next to the meter because the next gas man is too lazy  to walk round the corner and look.  I think I will go with a clamp just before the branch.

Isn't it about time their rules and ours said the same thing?

no point bonding something outside the equipotential zone, so no need to run the cabl outside. if gas monkey wants it outside then he can do it himself

 

[Murdoch]

So WE have to bond withing 600mm of point of entry (where practical) or before a branch

Isn't this what the BYB says?

 

[Andy™]

yes, but gas 'engineers' usually say different

 

[ProDave]

That is why I asked, to try and find the actual wording of what the GAS regs say about bonding, but so far nobody know for certain.

 

[Blue Duck]

Immediately after the union or something like that? 

 

[ProDave]

I resigned from the EETPU 30 odd years ago. I don't do unions any more.

 

[Ardet R]

From the HSE ACOP on the gas regs:

Regulation 18(1)–(2)
Any person who connects any installation pipework to a primary meter shall, in any case where equipotential bonding may be necessary, inform the responsible person that such bonding should be carried out by a competent person.
Guidance 18(1)–(2)…
204 The regulation is directed at the 600 mm (approximate) length of installation pipework at the outlet of the domestic meter installation which is the recommended location of any main equipotential bond in the appropriate standard.
205 The requirements for main equipotential bonding are more strict for certain types of electrical supply to premises (e.g. those supplies from protective multiple earth (PME) systems – most new electrical supplies will be from such systems). A gas engineer may not be competent to make the necessary judgement, in which case the responsible person needs to be informed of this fact and any further action left to them.
206 Regulation 18(2) does not apply to the installation of a meter. In addition to main bonding, supplementary equipotential pipework bonding may be necessary in locations of increased electric shock risk, e.g. bathrooms. In such cases, a competent electrician should be consulted.
207 In many commercial and other large sites where gas and electric meters may be remotely located, the bonding is not always possible within a 600 mm distance. A competent electrician needs to consider what action is necessary in these cases.
 

So where bonding MAY be necessary you advise that it should be done?

The appropriate standard (obviously not BS7671) states 600mm from the meter?

PME makes the requirements stricter? No, just different.

But a competent electrician can make the decision on large sites but apparently not in domestic despite the "carried out by a competent person" requirement

As clear as BS7671 sorry, mud.

 

[SPECIAL LOCATION]

As far as I understand things, this is an area full of myths and misunderstanding by both electricians AND gas fitters..

(just as bucket loads of electricians misinterpret their OWN regs, Gas bods don't have much of a clue about either gas or electrical regs...!!!!)

BS 6891 is the primary UK standard for smaller diameter low pressure gas pipework installations, such as those installed in domestic residential premises.

Published November 2015...

https://shop.bsigroup.com/ProductDetail/?pid=000000000030199129

In which Clause 8.4.3.1 says..

"A gas installation within a property with an electrical supply shall have a main protective bonding conductor connecting the pipework to the electrical installation's main earth terminal, as specified in BS7671"

Which in a nutshell for a layman says...  "Do as specified in BS7671 wiring regs!!"

so What is the problem????????????????????? :C

Make your assessment as a competent electrician as to what needs bonding (or not), and / or where it needs bonding,  re; BS7671 reg 544.1.2...

Do it..

Then who gives two hoots about what any Gas Cowboys think, as long as you have done it right to BS7671.

Guinness  

 

[Evans Electric]

Gas Geezers are worse than us for applying their regs retrospectively .

One favourite  was  shutting a gas fire down  until the customer had an air brick set in the wall  .   Customer was saying "But you people fitted the thing now you're condemning  it "   

 

[ProDave]

From the HSE ACOP on the gas regs:

Regulation 18(1)–(2)
Any person who connects any installation pipework to a primary meter shall, in any case where equipotential bonding may be necessary, inform the responsible person that such bonding should be carried out by a competent person.
Guidance 18(1)–(2)…
204 The regulation is directed at the 600 mm (approximate) length of installation pipework at the outlet of the domestic meter installation which is the recommended location of any main equipotential bond in the appropriate standard.
205 The requirements for main equipotential bonding are more strict for certain types of electrical supply to premises (e.g. those supplies from protective multiple earth (PME) systems – most new electrical supplies will be from such systems). A gas engineer may not be competent to make the necessary judgement, in which case the responsible person needs to be informed of this fact and any further action left to them.
206 Regulation 18(2) does not apply to the installation of a meter. In addition to main bonding, supplementary equipotential pipework bonding may be necessary in locations of increased electric shock risk, e.g. bathrooms. In such cases, a competent electrician should be consulted.
207 In many commercial and other large sites where gas and electric meters may be remotely located, the bonding is not always possible within a 600 mm distance. A competent electrician needs to consider what action is necessary in these cases.

The bit I have highlighted is what the gas man will expect then.

So do I cable tie my wire all the way round the house so it can be clamped 600mm from the meter, or do I bond it where our regs say, and expect to get called back to the job next time the boiler is serviced and the gas man says I have done it wrong?

It really is a shambles that Gas Safe and the IET cannot bang their heads together and agree a set of common standards that both trades work to.

 

[Ardet R]

I would really in this case stick to your original plan, perhaps labelling the meter as bonded at point of entry to the equipotential zone!

Alternatively do as you planned and then fit a bonding clamp to the meter outlet and six inches of 10mm² and drill a 10mm deep hole in  the wall and poke the wire in the hole, the gas man will be happy at least :facepalm: !

 

[Sharpend]

Did it say a competent person to make the assessment which implies they are not :C  so that leaves it you Dave.