What do think the biggest changes in our trade have been?

[ProDave]

I was a union member for years .. when I joined the ETU was ripping it's self apart   getting rid of the communist leadership.   All voting for leadership was rigged and the way for communists to try bringing down democratic governments  was to manipulate the working man  through  the power of strike.  

The  plumbers joined and the union  became the EEPTU ...the leadership elections were monitored  by  the Electoral Reform Society .

However the shop floor leaders as in Shop Stewards  retained their communist or left wing leanings  and continued  to maintain  their little empires  and their grip on power .    I never met one  who wasn't a bolshie  ****** . They even spoke in the same vernacular .  

They used the electrical members in  power generating  and   leading industries like steel and the car manufacturers as cannon fodder in their war against governments , mainly Conservative ..........  and couldn't give a toss for contracting  sparks  because they couldn't be organized .    

They didn't like me  because when they inspected my card , which was often ,  it was marked to show I didn't pay the Labour Party levy ...didn't go down well . 

I resigned from the EETPU when some big wig at a meeting told us blatant lies.  I expected to be an outcast, but either nobody noticed, or nobody cared I was no longer a union member.

 

[SPECIAL LOCATION]

Biggest change since I started work as a 16 year old apprentice straight from school.....

(excluding health and safety, which now means half of our normal working practices would have been illeagal!!)...

Is the general concept of Time, or lack of urgency around most jobs....

The idea of next day delivery for mundane everyday items was a non starter...

Non-stock items that weren't off the shelf would probably have to wait for the next weeks delivery van run before you could get them...

Jobs seemed to be either big or small, depending upon the number of guys working together on site..

Small job may be; One qualified bloke, one just out of his time nearly competent to work alone, plus a new apprentice just started..

Bigger job; may be half dozen qualified guys, and a bunch of newly qualified or apprentices, probably 10 or more working as a team...

But the jobs didn't appear to be urgent or non-urgent... just a case of get on with it till its finished...

If you ran out of something part way through a job, that just meant a longer tea break, while you went off to ring the office to order something else that you may then be able to collect in two or three days!

Basically the work environment was more laid back and less stressed....  quite possibly not the most efficient...

but more enjoyable and more conducive to teaching the younger lads new skills and giving them time to do hands on practice...

While still having qualified assistance standing by should it be needed to take over.

The modern work environment just doesn't have the manpower or the time to properly pass on skills and knowledge to anyone who is wanting to learn a trade.

For some reason Time has become too expensive...

And everything is urgent...

Even non urgent jobs... people seem to want done tomorrow????

I have my regular customers primed and taught to understand realistic time scales...

But you still get new customers ring up asking if you can come out that day or tomorrow to do a job..

If you say I can pop round in two weeks for some reason they sound aghast???

Yet two weeks is quite a short time, when compared to old days of mail order...

You would post off an order and the delivery terms would say... "Allow 28 days for delivery".

With all of our labour saving tools and devices, we should have more time not less..

But somehow Time itself doesn't appear to be working the same anymore?     :C  

That is a BIG change!

opcorn

 

[apprentice87]

Oh yes, some silly things have gone on, but, we live in a country that cannot even build its own power stations, cannot even generate enough power, and we have to buy it from the VERY SAME state nationalised FOREIGN power companies that we sold all our"privatised" assets to..

Etc etc etc....

Think this would have happened if the unions had been a bit better supported?? There might have been a few "looney" union bosses.... But were they?? or is this just how the government got their friends in the media to portray them.

Take a look at the NHS.. Now, who you going to believe?? The government?? or the staff that actually work there.. The hospital i am involved with, have a struggle to even find doctors to employ, there are simply not enough. No matter what the lying government will tell you, they have made life that difficult for doctors [who are not paid that much, but work stupid hours] that not many people actually want to be one anymore..

john...

 

[ProDave]

I do agree it was insane closing our coal mines and later closing our coal powered power stations without even attempting to clean them up or try out carbon capture on them.

Closer t my heart is closing down our nuclear industry so we can't build our own now, if we want one we have to pay a foreign country to build it.

 

[Evans Electric]

As I keep saying ..ad Nauseum ... we think we are a big important country but we're not ,   yet somehow , even with thousands  of industrial jobs  gone forever , we are apparently , wealthy .....no idea how or why .  Personally I think we live from month to month  but we still feel the need to give billions away in foreign aid  ....I'd love to know  where all that ends up . 

 

[Sharpend]

Well the billions we have given India has allowed them to use their own money to develop a space agency of their own??? Now of course we’re not that stupid why have our own when we can share!!!!

 

[Blue Duck]

I do agree it was insane closing our coal mines and later closing our coal powered power stations without even attempting to clean them up or try out carbon capture on them.

Closer t my heart is closing down our nuclear industry so we can't build our own now, if we want one we have to pay a foreign country to build it.

It's worse than that..

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2016/09/15/china-to-build-nuclear-reactor-in-essex-after-hinkley-deal-appro/

 

[Kurt]

Think there is a little romance thinking here about the "good old days, when we had unions"

I lived and worked through the Thatcher period, miners strike, unions etc and quite frankly the unions were a collection of arrogant bullies who carrotted on the members and intimidated any dissenters (sound familiar to the Corbyn fan base?).

5WW has nothing to do with unions, there is no unions involved with either my gas qualifications or Fgas qualifications yet there does not appear to be a massive dilution of the trade in those disciplines.

Basically you have to deal with the image of the trade that any muppet can get something lit up and if it all goes titsup there's good old ADS to save the day.

 

[OnOff]

The girls in the office using 8" floppies....

 

[rapparee]

The girls in the office using 8" floppies....

God your girls are lucky, I could only offer 3 1/2" when floppy

:Blushing

:coat

 

[OnOff]

God your girls are lucky, I could only offer 3 1/2" when floppy

:Blushing

:coat

I heard you had an Amstrad!

 

[Tony S]

I am no expert at all in these matters, but it seems to me that the root of all this was that courgettewit Thatcher. The attack on the miners [who were later proved entirely correct] was nothing but "class war" The courgettewit knew that she had to destroy the unions and turn people against each other, and was prepared to do just that at any cost.

Meanwhile, joe public was allowed to go and buy up all the social housing at a fraction of what it cost. House prices went up, [as they would]. and half of these muppets took out further mortgages, and also turned their backs on the unions, as they had convinced themselves that they were now "middle class" and what did they want to be in a union for.

Now they were up a creek without a paddle.. back in the union days, there was NO WAY that you were going to be allowed to work as an electrician unless you actually were one, and secondly, you had "job demarkation" I remember in the hospital years ago, i was going to change a light bulb, and once i was going to paint a wall. On both occasions i was told "NO WAY" as apparently the whole lot would have walked out on strike..

No though, anyone can call themselves an electrician, and, having destroyed their own unions and trapped themselves into great big mortgages, the average worker could not even afford to go on strike even if they wanted to.

They undid EVERYTHING the labour movement had done to improve the lot of the working man.

Now they wonder why people from Romania think they can do a 3 month course and turn up here and be an "electrician" Fact is, they CAN... They might not get a job in industry, but the average householder does not care, all they want is it works and it was cheap. Think the government will help?? Dream on. It suits them. NO WAY do they want the working man to regain any sort of organised group power, if you like. Divide and rule, and that is what they have done.

You have all undermined yourselves...

john..

Demarcation, the bain of British industry. Ten men to do one mans job.

John you know nothing of those days and the economic problems demarcation caused.

 

[apprentice87]

John you know nothing of those days and the economic problems demarcation caused

Nope, maybe not, BUT, when you had "demarcation" you electricians were specialists. Nobody else did your job.. You were either an electrician or you were not.. The hospital was wired in proper screwed and socketed conduit and beautifully installed pyro, all with decent accessories too, that will all outlast the rest of the place.

Now?? Surface mounted plastic conduit. El cheapo chinese ****, [but rebranded as "quality" makes] accessories, and 99% of electrical work is done by "jack of all trades, master of none" 5WW, often foreign, muppets, and you PROPER electricians, have all been largely squeezed out..

Ask yourselves who is to blame??? Not the government, not the IET, not all the "training" providers... I will tell you exactly who is to blame, yourselves... Where were YOU when the miners were out?? That was the thin end of the wedge, but nobody seemed to care, they deluded themselves that they were all "middle class" now, and so what did they want to worry about a load of "thick mucky [often welsh too] miners for" All communists i tell you"

Well, you are worrying now...

john..

 

[Murdoch]

I know of some fire alarm guys who have trackers in their vans. If they spend longer than necessary for a job they get a phone call, looking to know what's happening.

Theres a local maintenance company that have tracker in their vans - so the guys are often seen reading the paper sitting in the wholesalers car parks - ..... very regularly too.

 

[binky]

Demarcation disputes, that is going back a long way - Liverpool docks was most famous - the chalk line dispute. I would agree that the Trade Unions had got completely out of hand in places and cuased a lot of unnecessary loss of earnings for the UK. However, we now seem to have swung too far the other way, with ****** all or 'self regulation' leading to hordes of incompetent persons doing things they shouldn't touch. About the only thing driving standards back up abit is Insurance companies by refusing to payout damages when incompetent persons have been involved. I did a little job changing a single phase meter for a solar system the other day, something any spark could do, but the FiT provider insisted it could only be done by an MCS registered person, ie me!

 

[apprentice87]

A few examples..

Teachers.. instead of employing more, they now have "teaching assistants" [half trained, cheaper] [soft crappy union]

Policemen instead of employing more, they now have "PCSO's" [half trained, cheaper] [soft crappy union]

Nurses instead of employing more, they now have "HCSW" [health care support worker] [half trained, cheaper] [soft crappy union]

Electricians, etc etc etc Half, no, 5% trained 5ww types, all doing away with your jobs [all thought you were above unions...]

Firemen..... Seen any 5ww east european firemen have we?? thought not.. PROPER union..

Now, who do you think got it right????

john..

 

[Tony S]

Demarcation:

A motor burns out.

A mate and I test the motor and disconnect it.

A fitter and mate take out the holding down bolts and remove the coupling.

The slingers and riggers get the motor to the loading bay.

The transport department takes the motor to stores.

I go to stores to fill out the paperwork.

And on it goes, an hours job turns in to a full day. A day of lost production which knocks on in to lost bonus for the workers.

The miners:

While I had every sympathy for their cause, flying pickets trying to stop me getting to work got no sympathy.

 

[binky]

Demarcation:

A motor burns out.

A mate and I test the motor and disconnect it.

A fitter and mate take out the holding down bolts and remove the coupling.

The slingers and riggers get the motor to the loading bay.

The transport department takes the motor to stores.

I go to stores to fill out the paperwork.

And on it goes, an hours job turns in to a full day. A day of lost production which knocks on in to lost bonus for the workers.

The miners:

While I had every sympathy for their cause, flying pickets trying to stop me getting to work got no sympathy.

That was a rediculous way of working and best long gone, however, it has to be said it was probably safer!

 

[Kurt]

In 1982 i was sent over to the Mid West Oklahoma to work on our sister plant . Well as a 19 year old i had no fixed ideas on how things should work . In the UK, we had a welder, fitter, electrician, tool fitter, etc etc. When i went to the states i saw the same man, repair a machine and he did all the jobs, including welding, to get the plant running again. I admit that this was OK for the vast majority of faults and his skills in any one field were not as high but their maintenance debt was tiny compared to ours and their downtime was no less.

It did rather stick in my mind and as our products were purchased by international companies who could buy competitor products from anywhere in the world is was pretty obvious our working practices , if continued , would result in the death of the company in the uk.

So by all means look to Unions to save the day, but who is going to buy our stuff, no customers = no business=no employees=no union

 

[Evans Electric]

So by all means look to Unions to save the day, but who is going to buy our stuff, no customers = no business=no employees=no union

Exactly ...and no businesses  =  no NHS... no benefits ..... no pensions   etc .