wiring

[jackfrosty]

Hi, i have recently been on a honeywell course to learn how to wire central heating systems, all went well just have a few questions still

What is the most economical reels of cable to buy? 3 core and 5 core? also im not sure what currents most systems draw so what is the common size cable to wire it in?

the people on the course insisted the room stat and cyclinder stat didnt need a cable with earth to be used and just 2 core, is this correct? i always understood you should just terminate the earth at either end even if class2 fittings are used

Thanks

 

[initforthemoney]

Surely the course taught you fuse sizes????

As for cable, use whatever is easier cheapest.

 

[jackfrosty]

should heat resistant cable be used for able parts such as the cylinder stat?

 

[Apache]

should heat resistant cable be used for able parts such as the cylinder stat?

Not a bad plan.

 

[initforthemoney]

should heat resistant cable be used for able parts such as the cylinder stat?

No not really.

Although most do.

It is mainly used for the immersion heater as these are normally on top and in contact with the tank.

 

[kme]

No not really.

I suppose it depends on your propensity for following mfrs instruction sheets......

For instance: Most (if not all) boiler wiring info will specify heat resistant, 0.75mm or greater flex for the boiler connections.

Most CH wiring, by its essence, is going to be in close proximity to hot pipes / objects. I would consider this to be the ideal conditions for using HR flex.

My opinion, for what its worth......

KME

 

[PC Electrics]

Hi, i have recently been on a honeywell course to learn how to wire central heating systems, all went well just have a few questions stillWhat is the most economical reels of cable to buy? 3 core and 5 core? also im not sure what currents most systems draw so what is the common size cable to wire it in?

the people on the course insisted the room stat and cyclinder stat didnt need a cable with earth to be used and just 2 core, is this correct? i always understood you should just terminate the earth at either end even if class2 fittings are used

Thanks

I've been thinking about doing the free Honeywell course too, mainly for the 'kudos' so I can make myself more 'saleable' to local plumbers. I already do work for 3 local plumbs and wouldn't mind expanding this side of the business. If I do say so myself, I'm generally quite good at wiring CH systems and fault finding.

However, if this course leaves you with so many basic questions, I'm not sure I will bother. Seems hardly worth going. OP, could you give us more idea of the course content and how you found it?

---------- AUTO MERGE Post added at 09:07 ---------- Previous post was at 08:59 ----------

the people on the course insisted the room stat and cyclinder stat didnt need a cable with earth to be used and just 2 core, is this correct? i always understood you should just terminate the earth at either end even if class2 fittings are used

Thanks

No, it isn't.

411.3.1.1 para 4:

A cpc shall be run to and terminated at each point in wiring and at each accessory..(except for pendants)

Now, when you say "the people on the course" do you mean the tutors or students?

---------- AUTO MERGE Post added at 09:19 ---------- Previous post was at 09:07 ----------

What is the most economical reels of cable to buy? 3 core and 5 core? also im not sure what currents most systems draw so what is the common size cable to wire it in?

Thanks

I use a combination of 3, 4 and 5 core flex, all 0.75mm.

http://www.screwfix.com/search.do;jsessionid=OAW5QZPNI2CWUCSTHZOSFFY?_dyncharset=UTF-8&fh_search=95721

http://www.screwfix.com/search.do;jsessionid=OAW5QZPNI2CWUCSTHZOSFFY?_dyncharset=UTF-8&fh_search=20292

I buy mine from Edmunsons though.

Which you use will obviously depend on which item it goes to. FVor example on a Y plan the programmer needs 6 live cores, so I use a run of each of 3 and 4 core. The tank stat requires 3 live cores, so I use 4 core (3 live cores plus cpc). And so on.

If it's a gas boiler then you should be fitting a 3A fuse. The highest consumption item in the system is generally the pump at about 80 to 100W. For oil boilers a 5A fuse may be specified ('cos the boiler has an oil pump too).

On the subject of pumps, why not try selling the client one of these:

http://net.grundfos.com/doc/webnet/poweredby/gb/alpha2.html

I'm going to fit one to my own system soon. They cost about

 

[Lurch]

I can;t see this course being of any benefit to a plumber wanting a spark to wire boilers. TBH if you can;t follow instructions then going on a very basic course isn;t going to help much, and the actual wiring of devices should be something you already know how to do as you are an electrician anyway. I think these courses are more for plumbers, if you are an electrician and can't grasp what happens on this course then I would consider not being an electrician.

I do quite lot of heating jobs, used to loads of British Gas jobs and even more private. This week I've been doing a heating system down south (wiring and pipework) and have designed the wiring system to suit, basically S plan plus with additional zone for towel rails. Took me about 5-10 mins to run through the wiring in my head when 1st fixing the wires to make sure there were no doubled up pointless runs and that everything was where it should be, took another 10 mins to draw a diagram of the whole system wiring as fitted before fitting.

I haven;t done a course, but TBH if you can;t wire a Y plan from a diagram in the instructions that come with the valve\clock then I'd reconsider even bothering, and if you can;t think on your feet and suss out non-standard systems without going on a very basic course then I wouldn;t even think about approaching plumbers and asking to do their systems.

 

[PC Electrics]

I can;t see this course being of any benefit to a plumber wanting a spark to wire boilers. TBH if you can;t follow instructions then going on a very basic course isn;t going to help much, and the actual wiring of devices should be something you already know how to do as you are an electrician anyway. I think these courses are more for plumbers, if you are an electrician and can't grasp what happens on this course then I would consider not being an electrician. I do quite lot of heating jobs, used to loads of British Gas jobs and even more private. This week I've been doing a heating system down south (wiring and pipework) and have designed the wiring system to suit, basically S plan plus with additional zone for towel rails. Took me about 5-10 mins to run through the wiring in my head when 1st fixing the wires to make sure there were no doubled up pointless runs and that everything was where it should be, took another 10 mins to draw a diagram of the whole system wiring as fitted before fitting.

I haven;t done a course, but TBH if you can;t wire a Y plan from a diagram in the instructions that come with the valve\clock then I'd reconsider even bothering, and if you can;t think on your feet and suss out non-standard systems without going on a very basic course then I wouldn;t even think about approaching plumbers and asking to do their systems.

I know from talking to my assessor a couple of weeks ago, that there is some concern that plumbers are doing their own wiring and not notifying, 'cos they are not members of any P scheme (even defined) and think they can get round the P by using RF controls. On top of that many are wiring very poorly and not following 7671.

Perhaps it would be worth going on the course if only to put Honeywell right on the requirements of BS7671 and Part P?

 

[m4tty]

I can;t see this course being of any benefit to a plumber wanting a spark to wire boilers. TBH if you can;t follow instructions then going on a very basic course isn;t going to help much, and the actual wiring of devices should be something you already know how to do as you are an electrician anyway. I think these courses are more for plumbers, if you are an electrician and can't grasp what happens on this course then I would consider not being an electrician. I do quite lot of heating jobs, used to loads of British Gas jobs and even more private. This week I've been doing a heating system down south (wiring and pipework) and have designed the wiring system to suit, basically S plan plus with additional zone for towel rails. Took me about 5-10 mins to run through the wiring in my head when 1st fixing the wires to make sure there were no doubled up pointless runs and that everything was where it should be, took another 10 mins to draw a diagram of the whole system wiring as fitted before fitting.

I haven;t done a course, but TBH if you can;t wire a Y plan from a diagram in the instructions that come with the valve\clock then I'd reconsider even bothering, and if you can;t think on your feet and suss out non-standard systems without going on a very basic course then I wouldn;t even think about approaching plumbers and asking to do their systems.

I get what your saying mate but everyones got to start somewhere.

 

[PC Electrics]

I get what your saying mate but everyones got to start somewhere.

That's a fair point, but the main thrust here is not the need for a couse as a starting point, but the quality of the course that leaves an electrician with such basic knowledge gaps.

I'm assuming Dan is an electrician

 

[Lurch]

I get what your saying mate but everyones got to start somewhere.

I'm not sayig don;t do the course or that everyone should know how to wire systems, but there's 2 parts to a heating system, the wiring and the design. The wiring should be simple for most here as it's just wiring stuff up, bread and butter stuff really. The design element, while it seems complex it isn't, it's just switches and loads, basically like several 1 way lighting points wired through 1 junction box. All you need to do is take a methodical, logical approach to it and it is actually quite easy.

A lot of people struggle with heating wiring, I don;t know why. If you can;t grasp it then I don;t think your brain works in the right way so you probably find a lot of non-standard electrical stuff quite complicated also, and by non standard I mean anything more than 1 way lights and radial circuits.

 

[PC Electrics]

I'm not sayig don;t do the course or that everyone should know how to wire systems, but there's 2 parts to a heating system, the wiring and the design. The wiring should be simple for most here as it's just wiring stuff up, bread and butter stuff really. The design element, while it seems complex it isn't, it's just switches and loads, basically like several 1 way lighting points wired through 1 junction box. All you need to do is take a methodical, logical approach to it and it is actually quite easy. A lot of people struggle with heating wiring, I don;t know why. If you can;t grasp it then I don;t think your brain works in the right way so you probably find a lot of non-standard electrical stuff quite complicated also, and by non standard I mean anything more than 1 way lights and radial circuits.

Baffles me too. CH wiring follows a very simple logical path using nothing more than open / close switches.

 

[septiclecky]

:C

No not really.Although most do.

It is mainly used for the immersion heater as these are normally on top and in contact with the tank.

And is the cylinder stat not also in contact with the tank :C

 

[Doc Hudson]

:C And is the cylinder stat not also in contact with the tank :C

And the flex very often just drapes over some of the hot pipes exiting the cylinder.

Doc H.

 

[PC Electrics]

And the flex very often just drapes over some of the hot pipes exiting the cylinder.Doc H.

Not when I've wired it up it doesn't!

I take your point though - I have actually seen stat wiring tie wrapped to one of the hot water coil pipes!

 

[NozSpark]

And the flex very often just drapes over some of the hot pipes exiting the cylinder.Doc H.

and thought they were either taped ot or wrapped arround them:O

 

[jackfrosty]

i know obviously time+the cable=money but what is the average kind of price for wiring a y and s plan central heating considering there are no complicated runs and plumber supplies everything apart from cable

cheers

 

[PC Electrics]

I charge

 

[jackfrosty]

thanks for that, how long do you take for wiring the average system considering everything is in airing cupboard area?