External walk in freezer issue help compressor

Hi

its my first time posting on here or in any forum so apologies if im in the wrong thread or doing anyhting wrong if you could point me in the right direction it would be greatly appreciated

a bit of background im fully qualfied electrican registered with napit and just need some clarification from someone more knowledgable than me on this regarding compressors

i recently had an call out to a repeat customer to look at a single phase external walk in freezer situated at the back of a resturant that had been tripping im not an refrigeration engineer which i told the customer but he wanted me to check the basics before calling out a specialist. when i arrived at the job the following day it was all working and the customer said they had been resetting the breaker everytime it tripped and it just stayed on after a while. They said it started tripping when the door was opened this had a contact switch for the internal light. upon checking the light fitting there was frozen water inside the fitting im guessing that in a hot day (walk in freezer outside) there may have been condensation forming that had made its way into the light fitting freexing and when it heated up the water melting hence causing the tripping the light fitting in question was just a cheap bulkhead with a bc E27 led lamp in it, (if there are any other reasons why condensation would be forming please advise)

i spoke to my whoesaler (cef) for something suitable and they provided an ip65 led bulkhead that was suitable down to -25 that was suitable

i replaced the old light fitting with the new one (siliconing the small rear entrance hole aswel as the two screw holes to seal) and powered back up after testing.

the compressor took a little while to kick in once the door was shut and from what i read on the manual of the unit it goes through a few checks before powering up.

fast forward three weeks later with no issues and i had a call from the customer saying the freezer had tripped at the breaker, unfortunately i was on holday and couldnt attend but was happy to do so once i returned.

uopn returning from holiday i contacted the customer to see if they managed to get the freezer sorted or if they needed any further assisance i was told that the company that came out had said the light fitting wasnt suitable for the freezer, condensation had got into the new light fitting which in turn had damaged the compressor which also needed replacing (which the company then proceeded to replace)

Please correct me if im wrong but i cant see how the short circuit of water in the light fitting could damage the compressor once the power had tripped, unless the breaker has been repeatedly turned on and off again by the customer due to constant tripping in a short space of time which in turn has led to the over heating/ damage of the compressor,

im not overly familiar with compressors but i was always taught they shouldnt be switched on and off frequently, my other thought was if the compressor was starting to need some maintenance work and with the freezer being situated outside on sunny days could it be struggling to maintain temperature resulting in condensation?

since the other company went to the call out my orginal light fitting has been disposed of so i cant check it for defects (i know condensation shouldnt have been able to get inside the fitting in the first place which is a concern which i will be looking into further via cef)

I am looking at compensating the customer to try make thins right but the cost of replacing these was £2000 (alot more for than my original bill i charged for replacing a light fitting) and id just like to know all the facts before i go down this route, if the fail of the compressor could be my fault? i admit water getting into the fitting would be attributed to me even though the fitting (on the spec sheet at least) should have been suitable for the location

any help would be greatly appreciated on this or if any one has been in this situation before as its a first time for me

Gtown said:

i was told that the company that came out had said the light fitting wasnt suitable for the freezer, condensation had got into the new light fitting which in turn had damaged the compressor which also needed replacing (which the company then proceeded to replace)

Click to expand...

That is high up the BS scale, water in the light fitting won't affect the compressor. your fitting seems a lot more suitable than an E27 light bulb.

You don't need to compensate anyone, just move on. it might well be the compress was the issue all along but that will require an F gas engineer to de gas it, replace the compressor and re gas it.

Gtown said:

Hi

its my first time posting on here or in any forum so apologies if im in the wrong thread or doing anyhting wrong if you could point me in the right direction it would be greatly appreciated

a bit of background im fully qualfied electrican registered with napit and just need some clarification from someone more knowledgable than me on this regarding compressors

i recently had an call out to a repeat customer to look at a single phase external walk in freezer situated at the back of a resturant that had been tripping im not an refrigeration engineer which i told the customer but he wanted me to check the basics before calling out a specialist. when i arrived at the job the following day it was all working and the customer said they had been resetting the breaker everytime it tripped and it just stayed on after a while. They said it started tripping when the door was opened this had a contact switch for the internal light. upon checking the light fitting there was frozen water inside the fitting im guessing that in a hot day (walk in freezer outside) there may have been condensation forming that had made its way into the light fitting freexing and when it heated up the water melting hence causing the tripping the light fitting in question was just a cheap bulkhead with a bc E27 led lamp in it, (if there are any other reasons why condensation would be forming please advise)

Click to expand...

I'm assuming it was an RCD tripping? Did you do an insulation test on the light? Did you insulation test any other components such as the defrost elements and the compressor?

Even on a hot day the internal temperature of the freezer room will never get even close to zero degrees C, usually around -14 would be the warmest so there won't be condensation as such.

The common cause of condensation inside a freezer room is if the defrost cycle is set too long and/or if the defrost cycle abort thermostat is inoperative.

When defrost starts the refrigeration system should 'pump down' and the compressor will turn off. The defrost elements inside and/or underneath the evaporator coil will heat and raise the evap coil temp above zero celsius, the ice that's built up on it will melt and run down the drain. Usually there's a small thermostat inside the evaporator coil box that will abort the defrost when the temperature inside the evaporator box gets to maybe 10 or so degrees C. Sometimes there is no abort thermostat and the defrost cycle just terminates after a preset time.

If the defrost cycle runs too long the evap coil and the drain pan get too hot which causes any remaining water on/in them to turn to steam and condense on the roof of the room and the light fitting which is much cooler. This causes the inside of the room to drip like an equatorial rainforrest, ice stalactites can form on the roof and even stalagmites on the floor. It can also cause water pooling in the light fitting if its IP rating is poor.

The evaporator fans also usually have a delayed start for a preset time after a defrost cycle and the compressor restart to prevent blowing the hot humid air around the evaporator coil into the room for this very same reason.

Gtown said:

i spoke to my whoesaler (cef) for something suitable and they provided an ip65 led bulkhead that was suitable down to -25 that was suitable

i replaced the old light fitting with the new one (siliconing the small rear entrance hole aswel as the two screw holes to seal) and powered back up after testing.

the compressor took a little while to kick in once the door was shut and from what i read on the manual of the unit it goes through a few checks before powering up.

Click to expand...

If you installed an IP65 fitting that was rated to -25C and sealed any cable entries with silicone then it was appropriate for the application.

Refrigeration systems in general often have a delay of 2 or 3 mins between power up and compressor start. This is to allow the refrigeration system to equalise and prevent unnecessarily high mechanical stress and start currents caused by the compressor trying to start with a high pressure differential across it.

Gtown said:

fast forward three weeks later with no issues and i had a call from the customer saying the freezer had tripped at the breaker, unfortunately i was on holday and couldnt attend but was happy to do so once i returned.

uopn returning from holiday i contacted the customer to see if they managed to get the freezer sorted or if they needed any further assisance i was told that the company that came out had said the light fitting wasnt suitable for the freezer, condensation had got into the new light fitting which in turn had damaged the compressor which also needed replacing (which the company then proceeded to replace)

Please correct me if im wrong but i cant see how the short circuit of water in the light fitting could damage the compressor once the power had tripped, unless the breaker has been repeatedly turned on and off again by the customer due to constant tripping in a short space of time which in turn has led to the over heating/ damage of the compressor,

Click to expand...

As I mentioned above if it's correctly designed the compressor will be protected against damage by short cycling caused by rapid power fail and restore.

Firstly request the customer put in writing any accusations of poor workmanship or inappropriate materials. Then go to your supplier and ask then for a spec sheet on the light fitting and show the customer, tell them the other contractor is incorrect in his accusation and you're happy to prove it.

Gtown said:

im not overly familiar with compressors but i was always taught they shouldnt be switched on and off frequently, my other thought was if the compressor was starting to need some maintenance work and with the freezer being situated outside on sunny days could it be struggling to maintain temperature resulting in condensation?

Click to expand...

Again it should be protected against short cycling, if not it was either poorly designed from new or some butcher has reconfigured it to bypass the protection at a later date.

And again, apart from the defrost cycle being too long, if the freezer ever got warm enough inside to allow condensation to get inside the light fitting then the stock inside the freezer would have defrosted and spoiled.

Gtown said:

since the other company went to the call out my orginal light fitting has been disposed of so i cant check it for defects (i know condensation shouldnt have been able to get inside the fitting in the first place which is a concern which i will be looking into further via cef)

I am looking at compensating the customer to try make thins right but the cost of replacing these was £2000 (alot more for than my original bill i charged for replacing a light fitting) and id just like to know all the facts before i go down this route, if the fail of the compressor could be my fault? i admit water getting into the fitting would be attributed to me even though the fitting (on the spec sheet at least) should have been suitable for the location

any help would be greatly appreciated on this or if any one has been in this situation before as its a first time for me

Click to expand...

I'm not going to advise you on how you should deal with your customer but I would say that I personally (or my insurance company for that matter) wouldn't entertain any damages claim unless there's good evidence I had caused it and another contractors accusation alone would fall far short of the good evidence benchmark. As an absolute minimum in this type of case I would require I take posession of the failed compressor which I would have the agents perform a post mortem report on and also the old light fitting to have it inspected and even replaced under warranty if it was defective and not fit for purpose.

I would also say that it's not unheard of for less scrupulous contractors to encourage customers to persue previous contractors for damages and offer to bias their report toward making them liable. I'm not sure how it works in the UK but maybe you could approach NAPIT for assistance and advice? Also I'm assuming you've got liability insurance so maybe now is a good time to phone their helpline or your broker for some advce also.

ProDave said:

That is high up the BS scale, water in the light fitting won't affect the compressor. your fitting seems a lot more suitable than an E27 light bulb.

You don't need to compensate anyone, just move on. it might well be the compress was the issue all along but that will require an F gas engineer to de gas it, replace the compressor and re gas it.

Click to expand...

Hi

ProDave said:

That is high up the BS scale, water in the light fitting won't affect the compressor. your fitting seems a lot more suitable than an E27 light bulb.

You don't need to compensate anyone, just move on. it might well be the compress was the issue all along but that will require an F gas engineer to de gas it, replace the compressor and re gas it

ProDave said:

That is high up the BS scale, water in the light fitting won't affect the compressor. your fitting seems a lot more suitable than an E27 light bulb.

You don't need to compensate anyone, just move on. it might well be the compress was the issue all along but that will require an F gas engineer to de gas it, replace the compressor and re gas it.

Click to expand...

thank you for taking the time on an evening to message back it's massively appreciated

Click to expand...

Marvo said:

I'm assuming it was an RCD tripping? Did you do an insulation test on the light? Did you insulation test any other components such as the defrost elements and the compressor?

Even on a hot day the internal temperature of the freezer room will never get even close to zero degrees C, usually around -14 would be the warmest so there won't be condensation as such.

The common cause of condensation inside a freezer room is if the defrost cycle is set too long and/or if the defrost cycle abort thermostat is inoperative.

When defrost starts the refrigeration system should 'pump down' and the compressor will turn off. The defrost elements inside and/or underneath the evaporator coil will heat and raise the evap coil temp above zero celsius, the ice that's built up on it will melt and run down the drain. Usually there's a small thermostat inside the evaporator coil box that will abort the defrost when the temperature inside the evaporator box gets to maybe 10 or so degrees C. Sometimes there is no abort thermostat and the defrost cycle just terminates after a preset time.

If the defrost cycle runs too long the evap coil and the drain pan get too hot which causes any remaining water on/in them to turn to steam and condense on the roof of the room and the light fitting which is much cooler. This causes the inside of the room to drip like an equatorial rainforrest, ice stalactites can form on the roof and even stalagmites on the floor. It can also cause water pooling in the light fitting if its IP rating is poor.

The evaporator fans also usually have a delayed start for a preset time after a defrost cycle and the compressor restart to prevent blowing the hot humid air around the evaporator coil into the room for this very same reason.




If you installed an IP65 fitting that was rated to -25C and sealed any cable entries with silicone then it was appropriate for the application.

Refrigeration systems in general often have a delay of 2 or 3 mins between power up and compressor start. This is to allow the refrigeration system to equalise and prevent unnecessarily high mechanical stress and start currents caused by the compressor trying to start with a high pressure differential across it.





As I mentioned above if it's correctly designed the compressor will be protected against damage by short cycling caused by rapid power fail and restore.

Firstly request the customer put in writing any accusations of poor workmanship or inappropriate materials. Then go to your supplier and ask then for a spec sheet on the light fitting and show the customer, tell them the other contractor is incorrect in his accusation and you're happy to prove it.


Again it should be protected against short cycling, if not it was either poorly designed from new or some butcher has reconfigured it to bypass the protection at a later date.

And again, apart from the defrost cycle being too long, if the freezer ever got warm enough inside to allow condensation to get inside the light fitting then the stock inside the freezer would have defrosted and spoiled.



I'm not going to advise you on how you should deal with your customer but I would say that I personally (or my insurance company for that matter) wouldn't entertain any damages claim unless there's good evidence I had caused it and another contractors accusation alone would fall far short of the good evidence benchmark. As an absolute minimum in this type of case I would require I take posession of the failed compressor which I would have the agents perform a post mortem report on and also the old light fitting to have it inspected and even replaced under warranty if it was defective and not fit for purpose.

I would also say that it's not unheard of for less scrupulous contractors to encourage customers to persue previous contractors for damages and offer to bias their report toward making them liable. I'm not sure how it works in the UK but maybe you could approach NAPIT for assistance and advice? Also I'm assuming you've got liability insurance so maybe now is a good time to phone their helpline or your broker for some advce also.

Click to expand...

Thank you for taking the time to message back to me and for the detailed response it's very educational and appreciated, I was told it was the Rcbo that was tripping originally but by the time I got to the job it was no longer tripping I imagine the condensation inside the fitting had refrozen, it is only a really small unit and I do remember seeing small pools of water on the ceiling when attending it could be due to the warmer days I attended and the sudden blast of hot air hitting the ceiling of the freezer like you mentioned tioned, I did carry out insulation test on wiring to the light which was fine aswel as the usual Rcbo trip time and ramps test which was ok in all honesty I didnt do an insulation test on any components as from what the customer said it tripped when the door was opened which had a contactor switch for the light fitting and with There being water in the light I presumed that was the fault, if I had thought the issue was with the compressor control I would have probably passed it onto a specialist contractor with me being a bit unsure, i do have insurances in place but i greatly appreciate your advice in the matter on how to deal with this, i did get the feeling the company who carried out the work may have replaced more than what is necessary and my gut feeling is that even if condensation had got into the light and tripped the Rcbo, getting rid of the water ingress would have sorted the issue, although water getting in the past fittings even after sealing makes me thing there could be. An underlying issue with that you explained maybe the defrost cycle running to long as it's something I wouldn't know to check, is there a method of knowing how long the defrost cycle should run if it doesn't have a thermostat?
One final question would I right in be thinking there should be a record of maintenance for these freezers as i have a feeling this was a second hand unit to begin with and requesting a copy of any maintenance records would further help my cause,

Again I can't thank your self and other individuals who have commented great to see there people out there willing to help

Not sure about maintenance log requirements, I'm not UK based so I'm not familiar with your local codes of practice.

If there's no defrost cycle termination thermostat then setting the time duration of the defrost is trial and error.

Just a thought but water can ingress a light fitting by travelling through capillary action inside the cable itself between the outer sheath and the internal insulated conductors. Pretty rare but I have encountered it in the past. That said the fact they 'disposed of' the light fitting suggests to me their story is fabricated, as a contractor they would have known you woujld want to see the failed fitting that supposedly caused several thousand quids worth of damage.

Marvo said:

Not sure about maintenance log requirements, I'm not UK based so I'm not familiar with your local codes of practice.

If there's no defrost cycle termination thermostat then setting the time duration of the defrost is trial and error.

Just a thought but water can ingress a light fitting by travelling through capillary action inside the cable itself between the outer sheath and the internal insulated conductors. Pretty rare but I have encountered it in the past. That said the fact they 'disposed of' the light fitting suggests to me their story is fabricated, as a contractor they would have known you woujld want to see the failed fitting that supposedly caused several thousand quids worth of damage.

Click to expand...

Thank you again for your time and knowledge it's really appreciated

General rule if thumb, if someone else has interfered with your work, then any evidence has been destroyed, so no chance of winning a court case.

You made it clear you are not familiar with these freezers, it was the customer who wanted you to have a look to save money. So I would not be offering any firm if compo for this. The compressor was probably failing before you attended, if there was actually a fault with it.

Gtown said:

checking the light fitting there was frozen water inside the fitting im guessing that in a hot day (walk in freezer outside) there may have been condensation forming that had made its way into the light fitting freexing and when it heated up the water melting hence causing the tripping the light fitting in question was just a cheap bulkhead with a bc E27 led lamp in it, (if there are any other reasons why condensation would be forming please advise)

i spoke to my whoesaler (cef) for something suitable and they provided an ip65 led bulkhead that was suitable down to -25 that was suitable

i replaced the old light fitting with the new one (siliconing the small rear entrance hole aswel as the two screw holes to seal) and powered back up after testing.

fast forward three weeks later with no issues and i had a call from the customer saying the freezer had tripped at the breaker, unfortunately i was on holday and couldnt attend but was happy to do so once i returned.

uopn returning from holiday i contacted the customer to see if they managed to get the freezer sorted or if they needed any further assisance i was told that the company that came out had said the light fitting wasnt suitable for the freezer, condensation had got into the new light fitting which in turn had damaged the compressor which also needed replacing (which the company then proceeded to replace)

since the other company went to the call out my orginal light fitting has been disposed of so i cant check it for defects (i know condensation shouldnt have been able to get inside the fitting in the first place which is a concern which i will be looking into further via cef)

I am looking at compensating the customer to try make thins right but the cost of replacing these was £2000 (alot more for than my original bill i charged for replacing a light fitting) and id just like to know all the facts before i go down this route, if the fail of the compressor could be my fault? i admit water getting into the fitting would be attributed to me even though the fitting (on the spec sheet at least) should have been suitable for the location

any help would be greatly appreciated on this or if any one has been in this situation before as its a first time for me

Click to expand...

My thoughts would be:-

(A) Incorrect item / Premature failure
Any goods, or services, or work provided by any trades-person, company etc.. should be fit for purpose, and if they do fail prematurely then the supplier / provider of those goods / services should provide some type of warranty repair / replacement / refund.. However if those goods / services etc.. have been amended by a third party then as a general rule any warranty claim would be considered invalid.

So as it was claimed that your light fitting had failed after 3 weeks, you should have been able to remove it and take it back to CEF for a refund / replacement, so that you could then provide a remedial solution to the customer for the original work you had been paid for.

But if "A.N.Other Electrical Business Ltd" has removed and disposed of your originally fitted item, then any warranty claims would be invalid as you can no longer return the item, for you to get your refund / replacement.

Many years ago I was asked to look at a faulty electric shower, fitted by someone else, outside of the 12month warranty but still failed too soon!! It clearly had faulty internal wiring.. I contacted the manufacture, they asked me to post the faulty item to them, they inspected it and confirmed that it was faulty and then sent a cheque to the customer to cover the costs of a new shower plus my labour for fitting it!

Which is all very good if you have access to the "failed-faulty-item"... But if some plonker has binned it.. then there is nothing more you can do.. So just walk on to the next job and don't worry about it!

(B) Condensation...
I am no expert.. But I do know I have seen water, (presumable due to condensation), inside of a factory sealed LED 50w external floodlamp.. (The type of fitting that comes with the supply flex already fitted)...
Forgotten the manufacture but it had a 3-year warranty.. and after two years but less than three, customer rang & said it had stopped working!
When I took it down there was a significant amount of water visible behind the glass lens.. (plus unknow if other water was also inside the casing around the LED driver?)..
So I am assuming this was a build up of condensation over time... (Took it back for a warranty replacement with my supplier).

(C) Air contains moisture...
During the COVID lockdowns I remember hearing an article on the radio about various London museums having problems with some of their items on display "Drying-out-too-much", because they were not getting the normal thousands of visitors each day walking through the halls breathing their warm moist air as they viewed the various items on display!!

So when you fitted your replacement light fitting there would have been some air with an unknown moisture content sealed inside of it. And I would have thought that unless an item has been constructed as a vacuum, then there will always be some air inside of it with a moisture content which presumably in the right conditions could condense creating water droplets inside?

Plus I am also still guessing, but where the external air temperature is significantly different to the warmer air inside the fitting around the operating electrical components, condensation build up could be a greater potential problem?

However I do also know for a fact that various outdoor weatherproof accessories rated IP65 & IP66 actually have identified knock-outs labelled "Drain", where you should drill a drain hole to presumably allow any water build up to drain out!

(D) Final Thoughts...
Possibly your new fitting should have actually had a "drain-hole"?
But if something has failed after 3-weeks that would suggest a significant amount of water to me? (the LED floodlamps I mentioned earlier took over 2 years for condensation to build up!!)
If A.N.Other has tampered with your original work, leaving no photographic evidence, and/or no faulty accessories for you to evaluate, inspect, test, return to your supplier, then it is no longer your problem... Walk on leave it behind and crack on with the next job!

If you want to make an offer to the customer send them an email stating that you are very sorry to hear of their ongoing problems, as you always install quality branded products, appropriate to their installation environment, as per manufactures instructions and data-sheets. And that you are more than happy to look into a mutually acceptable solution, as soon as they can send the "alleged" faulty lamp back to you, so that you can pursue appropriate refund claims via your supplier and/or manufacture. Also tell them that you look forward to their prompt response as you always look at resolving any customer complaints within days rather than weeks!

P.S
Welcome to the forum... looks like you have been "lurking for a while" (Joined 10 Oct 2022!?!?)
I hope your "First-Post" hasn't put you off.....

Now that you have lost your "posting-virginity" next thing is get down to the bar and tell us all more about yourself.....

Important insider information..
they only refill the nuts and crisps on a Thursday or Sunday.....
so they can be on a bit of a short supply on a Wednesdays or Saturdays!!

Hope this isn't the last thread that you post?

SPECIAL LOCATION said:

My thoughts would be:-

(A) Incorrect item / Premature failure
Any goods, or services, or work provided by any trades-person, company etc.. should be fit for purpose, and if they do fail prematurely then the supplier / provider of those goods / services should provide some type of warranty repair / replacement / refund.. However if those goods / services etc.. have been amended by a third party then as a general rule any warranty claim would be considered invalid.

So as it was claimed that your light fitting had failed after 3 weeks, you should have been able to remove it and take it back to CEF for a refund / replacement, so that you could then provide a remedial solution to the customer for the original work you had been paid for.

But if "A.N.Other Electrical Business Ltd" has removed and disposed of your originally fitted item, then any warranty claims would be invalid as you can no longer return the item, for you to get your refund / replacement.

Many years ago I was asked to look at a faulty electric shower, fitted by someone else, outside of the 12month warranty but still failed too soon!! It clearly had faulty internal wiring.. I contacted the manufacture, they asked me to post the faulty item to them, they inspected it and confirmed that it was faulty and then sent a cheque to the customer to cover the costs of a new shower plus my labour for fitting it!

Which is all very good if you have access to the "failed-faulty-item"... But if some plonker has binned it.. then there is nothing more you can do.. So just walk on to the next job and don't worry about it!

(B) Condensation...
I am no expert.. But I do know I have seen water, (presumable due to condensation), inside of a factory sealed LED 50w external floodlamp.. (The type of fitting that comes with the supply flex already fitted)...
Forgotten the manufacture but it had a 3-year warranty.. and after two years but less than three, customer rang & said it had stopped working!
When I took it down there was a significant amount of water visible behind the glass lens.. (plus unknow if other water was also inside the casing around the LED driver?)..
So I am assuming this was a build up of condensation over time... (Took it back for a warranty replacement with my supplier).

(C) Air contains moisture...
During the COVID lockdowns I remember hearing an article on the radio about various London museums having problems with some of their items on display "Drying-out-too-much", because they were not getting the normal thousands of visitors each day walking through the halls breathing their warm moist air as they viewed the various items on display!!

So when you fitted your replacement light fitting there would have been some air with an unknown moisture content sealed inside of it. And I would have thought that unless an item has been constructed as a vacuum, then there will always be some air inside of it with a moisture content which presumably in the right conditions could condense creating water droplets inside?

Plus I am also still guessing, but where the external air temperature is significantly different to the warmer air inside the fitting around the operating electrical components, condensation build up could be a greater potential problem?

However I do also know for a fact that various outdoor weatherproof accessories rated IP65 & IP66 actually have identified knock-outs labelled "Drain", where you should drill a drain hole to presumably allow any water build up to drain out!

(D) Final Thoughts...
Possibly your new fitting should have actually had a "drain-hole"?
But if something has failed after 3-weeks that would suggest a significant amount of water to me? (the LED floodlamps I mentioned earlier took over 2 years for condensation to build up!!)
If A.N.Other has tampered with your original work, leaving no photographic evidence, and/or no faulty accessories for you to evaluate, inspect, test, return to your supplier, then it is no longer your problem... Walk on leave it behind and crack on with the next job!

If you want to make an offer to the customer send them an email stating that you are very sorry to hear of their ongoing problems, as you always install quality branded products, appropriate to their installation environment, as per manufactures instructions and data-sheets. And that you are more than happy to look into a mutually acceptable solution, as soon as they can send the "alleged" faulty lamp back to you, so that you can pursue appropriate refund claims via your supplier and/or manufacture. Also tell them that you look forward to their prompt response as you always look at resolving any customer complaints within days rather than weeks!

P.S
Welcome to the forum... looks like you have been "lurking for a while" (Joined 10 Oct 2022!?!?)
I hope your "First-Post" hasn't put you off.....

Now that you have lost your "posting-virginity" next thing is get down to the bar and tell us all more about yourself.....

Important insider information..
they only refill the nuts and crisps on a Thursday or Sunday.....
so they can be on a bit of a short supply on a Wednesdays or Saturdays!!

Hope this isn't the last thread that you post?

Click to expand...

Thank you for taking the time to post as with everyone it's much appreciated. I have come across similar issues with flood light that have prematurely failed due to water ingress which always surprised me with them being sealed units,
Regarding the condensation you could be right that when it was fitted some condensation could have been trapped inside the fitting, I'd be unsure how to get around this unless I'd have asked for the freezer to be de-frosted I couldn't really due this to the stock they had in but its something I will keep in mind for future.

I did speak to the customer yesterday and im in the process of contacting the other contractor for clarification on why a faulty light could have damaged the compressor, with all the information on here it's made me feel confident that he may have exaggerated the damage to get more work from them and then try to push the expense on to myself.

Also strangely in did get a phone call from my suppliers yesterday asking if I had lost the contract as a company with the same name whos was printed on the hand written report (saying my light wasn't suitable for the environment) went into that branch and took the exact same light fitting I fitted and referenced it freezer and the address where the job was (I know you can't write it) I'm going to give it a few days and call back to the job to see if it has been changed as I always put a mark on any fittings I fit so I can verify they were fitted by me.

And thank you to you and everyone taking the time to comment for such a warm welcome, it's really been an eye opener, I've always enjoyed reading forums as people give real life experiences and knowledge, I've noticed a recent trend especially on social media like tiktok that everyone seems to be negative towards people's work and rather help when someone has asked for it they'd rather put the person down for not knowing. I feel the reason I enjoy being a sparky is there's always something new to learn

Little about myself
I was lucky enough to have an apprenticeship from 16 and covered different aspects of work from domestic, industrial, agricultural I section and testing im now 35 and been self-employed since 23 and while I enjoy the job I do miss chatting to other lads on site (as most of my jobs are on my own) about the usual gripes, part p, unclear reg changes and constant speculation on how we as electricians will be sorting the electricity board issues of pen faults,

I certainly feel more confident on posting on here and will try to familiarise myself and maybe take part if there's any post I can help someone else

Had something similar to this about 30 years ago a main contractor was delaying payment and we decided to send the usual pay now before we commence legal recovery proceedings
The work was on a structure / building of local historical interest where the sandstone was being refurbished and we were updating the electrial installation ( new DB and some rewiring) and installation of exterior lighting while the job was carried out for the county council there was a garden centre that rented the land to the rear of the building and their irrigation system was supplied from the building
Following receipt of our letter the main contractor called us to give the reason why they were withholding payment which was down to a claim being made against us by the garden centre for damage to the control system for their irrigation system that was due to the RCD tripping, my first response was to ask if the damaged equipment was available for an independent inspection to be carried out and the answer was no, I then pointed out that the RCD tripping clearly indicated that in all probability the equipment was already faulty and the RCD tripped to prevent any further damage or risk to the garden centre and it's operatives and given there appeared to be no credible claim against us we looked forward to receiving our due payment promptly, the cheque arrived the day after but it showed how some people will try to make a dishonest claim for no good reason other than to get something fixed for free

UNG said:

Had something similar to this about 30 years ago a main contractor was delaying payment and we decided to send the usual pay now before we commence legal recovery proceedings
The work was on a structure / building of local historical interest where the sandstone was being refurbished and we were updating the electrial installation ( new DB and some rewiring) and installation of exterior lighting while the job was carried out for the county council there was a garden centre that rented the land to the rear of the building and their irrigation system was supplied from the building
Following receipt of our letter the main contractor called us to give the reason why they were withholding payment which was down to a claim being made against us by the garden centre for damage to the control system for their irrigation system that was due to the RCD tripping, my first response was to ask if the damaged equipment was available for an independent inspection to be carried out and the answer was no, I then pointed out that the RCD tripping clearly indicated that in all probability the equipment was already faulty and the RCD tripped to prevent any further damage or risk to the garden centre and it's operatives and given there appeared to be no credible claim against us we looked forward to receiving our due payment promptly, the cheque arrived the day after but it showed how some people will try to make a dishonest claim for no good reason other than to get something fixed for free

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I gave up on council type work for similar reasons. What I was finding was that other contractors might be onsite a year or two after we had completed a job, then reel out a long list of criticisms of our works to the council, who would then demand repairs free of charge. And so I would end up wasting days of my time pointing out how all my works are actually compliant with BS7671, and their new contractor was talking and was basically incompetent. In fact I got so fed up with this nonsense I shut the old business down and restarted under a different name. It wasn't the only reason for doing that, but it was certainly a motivator.

Never really had a problem with council work it was the main contractor that was generally the problem especially when you were tendering for work as a nominated sub contractor and didn't know who the main contractor might be

UNG said:

Never really had a problem with council work it was the main contractor that was generally the problem especially when you were tendering for work as a nominated sub contractor and didn't know who the main contractor might be

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I got to do some high profile jobs as a subby to the main contractors. Trouble was the councils approved contractor was not happy about this and took every opportunity to criticise everything. They lost every argument