3KW cooker on Living room ring??

[DaveS79]

Hi All

Turned up at job today thinking I'm swapping over a standard 13 amp cooker to hardwired type, utilizing existing cooker circuit.....simples. Arrive, and in living room is big 3KW cooker that he wants in addition to cooker already has in kitchen. Guy said can I hardwire into existing socket. Not done this before straight off ring and aware regs 'recommend no more than 2KW fixed appliances' I phoned NIC to run by them. Confirmed that regs seems to suggest it is just a recommendation. What I'm not entirely sure of is what if any potential risks are here. My understanding is as it is a fixed rated appliance it cannot overload so the 2.5mm flex comes with is not a problem although I generally upgrade these to 6mm, do I need to bother? And as the ring is so small and doesn't have many appliances/sockets I think chance of overloading the 32mcb is next to nil. The only other thing I'm not sure of is if the socket come from is near start or end of ring is there potential to overload the 2.5mm cable?

Any clarity as always appreciated.

 

[Murdoch]

I wouldn't add a cooker direct to a RFC which isn't protected by a 13A fuse

Bad design and implementation - and if the NIC suggest its OK - then they need educating!

What is the combined load of the 2 ovens when taking diversity into account and if they are going to be near each other could you use a dual outlet plate?

 

[Sharpend]

I would just walk away from it, it could come back to bite you. 

 

[DaveS79]

I wouldn't add a cooker direct to a RFC which isn't protected by a 13A fuse

Bad design and implementation - and if the NIC suggest its OK - then they need educating!

What is the combined load of the 2 ovens when taking diversity into account and if they are going to be near each other could you use a dual outlet plate?

Thanks Murdoch as helpful as ever. Unfortunately there is no chance of this going in the kitchen it's a big Rofco oven. I can't find the exact one online but is a big unit no way would fit in their tiny kitchen. From what I've read of Rofco cookers they are more suited to commercial environments or for serious home baking enthusiasts (my customers in this case) that have dedicated circuit. This is an apartment block so wiring for it and location non starter I think. In terms of the actual safety considerations of it, am i right in that the danger is overloading short leg before MCB kicks in? Cheers

I would just walk away from it, it could come back to bite you. 

Thanks Sharpend. Think that's only viable option. Am I right in thinking there's danger in overloading short leg before MCB kicks in?

 

[Fleeting]

I have never seen this brand in a pro kitchen, the larger style are more pseudo professional. As already mentioned either walk away unless they will opt for a dedicated circuit as I doubt you could apply too much diversity to them.

 

[Sharpend]

2.5mm cable will take ~27A iirc so if the oven is only 3Kw ~ 13A then shouldn’t on its own, however you are on a ring so it really is reliant upon what else is connected to ring. You could put it in a fused spur but I’d think that at regular full load it will cause problems for spur. 
also and probably more importantly he regs advise against >2kw being attached to a multiple used circuit ie it should be on its own circuit. 
the question I always ask the tech gurus on the scams when they suggest something that isn’t agreeable with the regs is; would you be happy to connect as you’ve suggested? It is usually causes them to revert to the regs. 

 

[DaveS79]

I have never seen this brand in a pro kitchen, the larger style are more pseudo professional. As already mentioned either walk away unless they will opt for a dedicated circuit as I doubt you could apply too much diversity to them.

Thanks Fleeting.

2.5mm cable will take ~27A iirc so if the oven is only 3Kw ~ 13A then shouldn’t on its own, however you are on a ring so it really is reliant upon what else is connected to ring. You could put it in a fused spur but I’d think that at regular full load it will cause problems for spur. 
also and probably more importantly he regs advise against >2kw being attached to a multiple used circuit ie it should be on its own circuit. 
the question I always ask the tech gurus on the scams when they suggest something that isn’t agreeable with the regs is; would you be happy to connect as you’ve suggested? It is usually causes them to revert to the regs. 

Cheers Sharpend. Have made mind up.....walking

 

[Sharpend]

See you’re getting wiser already

 

[DaveS79]

See you’re getting wiser already

Haha I am mate and older unfortunately

 

[Murdoch]

Thanks Fleeting.

Cheers Sharpend. Have made mind up.....walking

good man

leave this for some other mug . You will get used to declining to quote / and or quoting high ..... pick the jobs which aren’t going to cause you too many issues 

 

[DaveS79]

good man

leave this for some other mug . You will get used to declining to quote / and or quoting high ..... pick the jobs which aren’t going to cause you too many issues 

Noted Murdoch, another school day. Still learning to drill em for questions before taking job on.....a new one today, so this cooker you want it's not an industrial type by any chance that you want in your living room is it? Lol how you getting on with your new Metrel? Thinking of taking the punt on one as Megger still not right, still fluctuating readings even after Calibration Centre changed some parts. How sturdy is it? Concerned by the touchscreen digital display and how well made it looks, not sure if would stand up to the knocks and scraps of day to day site work 

 

[Murdoch]

 Lol how you getting on with your new Metrel? 

Well, I’m using the old one for jobs on the go and the new one on new jobs so swapping between them. 
 

noticed some good and some not so good, when comparing with the old one - that said I haven’t had time to properly read the manual

ill do a thread about it when I’ve got some spare time

 

[SPECIAL LOCATION]

Simple rule of thumb is...

"Does the appliance come with a manufactures fitted moulded plug on the end of a flex?"

If YES...  it can probably go onto a ring.

If NO...  don't waste any valuable beer drinking time, trying to evaluate if it can!!!!

As a side note:-

when I were a boy, it was very, very common to have a 3-bar electric fire plugged into a ring that supplied the whole house..

(4x circuit fuses:  Sockets/Cooker/Imm heat/Lights)

and as the 3bar fire was 1kwatt per bar...

when all three bars were on it pulled 3kWatts!

In winter all three bars were often on, (as central heating was less common)..

and I don't recall our house burning down?

BUT...   It is also true that nowadays, there are a lot more other higher power appliances plugged in as well..

Guinness  

 

[Sharpend]

Simple rule of thumb is...

"Does the appliance come with a manufactures fitted moulded plug on the end of a flex?"

If YES...  it can probably go onto a ring.

If NO...  don't waste any valuable beer drinking time, trying to evaluate if it can!!!!

As a side note:-

when I were a boy, it was very, very common to have a 3-bar electric fire plugged into a ring that supplied the whole house..

(4x circuit fuses:  Sockets/Cooker/Imm heat/Lights)

and as the 3bar fire was 1kwatt per bar...

when all three bars were on it pulled 3kWatts!

In winter all three bars were often on, (as central heating was less common)..

and I don't recall our house burning down?

BUT...   It is also true that nowadays, there are a lot more other higher power appliances plugged in as well..

Guinness  

And a lot more cheaper quality fittings ! Chinese plastic is overrated. 

 

[DaveS79]

Well, I’m using the old one for jobs on the go and the new one on new jobs so swapping between them. 
 

noticed some good and some not so good, when comparing with the old one - that said I haven’t had time to properly read the manual

ill do a thread about it when I’ve got some spare time

That would be good mate if could do that. If can tag me in on that or DM me be great so don't miss it

Simple rule of thumb is...

"Does the appliance come with a manufactures fitted moulded plug on the end of a flex?"

If YES...  it can probably go onto a ring.

If NO...  don't waste any valuable beer drinking time, trying to evaluate if it can!!!!

As a side note:-

when I were a boy, it was very, very common to have a 3-bar electric fire plugged into a ring that supplied the whole house..

(4x circuit fuses:  Sockets/Cooker/Imm heat/Lights)

and as the 3bar fire was 1kwatt per bar...

when all three bars were on it pulled 3kWatts!

In winter all three bars were often on, (as central heating was less common)..

and I don't recall our house burning down?

BUT...   It is also true that nowadays, there are a lot more other higher power appliances plugged in as well..

Guinness  

Thanks SL interesting point

 

[binky]

when I were a boy, it was very, very common to have a 3-bar electric fire plugged into a ring that supplied the whole house..

(4x circuit fuses:  Sockets/Cooker/Imm heat/Lights)

and as the 3bar fire was 1kwatt per bar...

when all three bars were on it pulled 3kWatts!

Guinness  

these little things seem to have escaped peoples minds, along with 500W security lights that were all the rage. Circuits hardly ever get used at anywhere near their max design load these days

 

[Murdoch]

these little things seem to have escaped peoples minds, along with 500W security lights that were all the rage. Circuits hardly ever get used at anywhere near their max design load these days

that I would agree with to an extent but would you add a cooker directly to a 32A RFC? 
 

I wouldn’t 

 

[binky]

that I would agree with to an extent but would you add a cooker directly to a 32A RFC? 
 

I wouldn’t 

not by choice