4mm ring

[kerching]

Have a look at the derating if it runs through kingspan for a couple of feet [my wording ]

 

[OnOff]

I was fresh out of college and full of the regs etc. I was on paid standby on a site and another contractor was doing a commercial lighting and ring install. With time on my hands I offered to assist just to "learn" how to do the steel conduit as I'd only ever done it at college. After completing I said "Shall we do the dead tests?". I got a funny look and one bloke flicked the light switch and said "That works!". Still reeling at this I said "What about testing the ring?"..............."You can chuck a Martindale in if you like" one of them said. Mind you another said he DIDN'T need to test as he was so confident of his work being that good. Needless to say both guys in question are in management now!

 

[kme]

Well - at least they`re not responsible for carrying out the work anymore - unfortunately; they probably advise others not to bother with such "pointless, `cos I`m god, and its always right" testing stuff

Would they replace the brakes on their kids` car, then let `em take it out without bothering to check `em - "cos they`re that good"?

 

[OnOff]

Well - at least they`re not responsible for carrying out the work anymore - unfortunately; they probably advise others not to bother with such "pointless, `cos I`m god, and its always right" testing stuff Would they replace the brakes on their kids` car, then let `em take it out without bothering to check `em - "cos they`re that good"?

No, what they do once they get to management level aside from NEVER again having to pick up a tool is preach health and safety and robotically recite toolbox talks handed down from on high which everyone has to then sign. When it comes to changing an RCBO in a panel where to switch of the DB would affect a dealing floor then they have certain engineers who object - they're seen as TROUBLEMAKERS! They don't object too strongly as jobs are scarce and to do so would be too mach hassle (human nature). Besides, call the HSE in and the managers will refer to their "system" whereby they would never, ever condone such bad practice, and indeed they hold regular toolbox talks etc to guard against this. Of course there are those on the team quite happy to work live ('cos again, they're that GOOD). The only concession to "safety" is that it might get done out of hours. (You wouldn't want the building tenants seeing a burnt corpse, now would you?). The job gets done and the guy who did it is seen as a top bloke and indeed FUTURE MANAGEMENT MATERIAL!

HV anyone? Well it's the weekend and the guy who actually knows how to do the switching job properly is on holiday / off shift. Management are on site, indeed they are theoretically trained sparks. The guy on shift doesn't really know what he's doing so it ends up that they do the work with everything simply isolated via the plc (Well, it's switched off on screen and plc's never go wrong do they?)

All the above is purely hypothetical and in NO way based on real events!

 

[ProDave]

No, what they do once they get to management level aside from NEVER again having to pick up a tool is preach health and safety and robotically recite toolbox talks handed down from on high which everyone has to then sign. When it comes to changing an RCBO in a panel where to switch of the DB would affect a dealing floor then they have certain engineers who object - they're seen as TROUBLEMAKERS! They don't object too strongly as jobs are scarce and to do so would be too mach hassle (human nature). Besides, call the HSE in and the managers will refer to their "system" whereby they would never, ever condone such bad practice, and indeed they hold regular toolbox talks etc to guard against this. Of course there are those on the team quite happy to work live ('cos again, they're that GOOD). The only concession to "safety" is that it might get done out of hours. (You wouldn't want the building tenants seeing a burnt corpse, now would you?). The job gets done and the guy who did it is seen as a top bloke and indeed FUTURE MANAGEMENT MATERIAL!HV anyone? Well it's the weekend and the guy who actually knows how to do the switching job properly is on holiday / off shift. Management are on site, indeed they are theoretically trained sparks. The guy on shift doesn't really know what he's doing so it ends up that they do the work with everything simply isolated via the plc (Well, it's switched off on screen and plc's never go wrong do they?)

All the above is purely hypothetical and in NO way based on real events!

So that roughly translates to:

The newly promoted boss will tell you to work live, but in such a way that if it things go wrong, there's no record of him ever having said that and he is in the clear.

 

[OnOff]

So that roughly translates to:The newly promoted boss will tell you to work live, but in such a way that if it things go wrong, there's no record of him ever having said that and he is in the clear.

You put it across far better than I did.

Thank God things like this don't happen in the real world where risk always takes presidence over cost!

 

[Doc Hudson]

The subbys in question would see two 4mm cables on a breaker and straight away would not even consider to test for a ring (they work for a large testing company,the more they test the more they earn )

So this is periodic inspection? Irrespective of what sized cables are in any circuit the circuits should be checked & tested in accordance with their original design and any previous test results. Just because a test reading is within BS7671 it may have drastically altered from previous test results due to some damage to a cable somewhere. These people doing half a job are no better than market traders selling counterfeit goods. The customer thinks they have had a full quality inspection, but reality is that the paper is pretty worthless. You wont change the way these people work, but they do no justice to the real workers within this industry doing a proper job.

Doc H.

 

[kme]

I remember testing 11 floors of a building, which had 15 no. 3 way CUs per floor - the supply to the CUs was from a rising main, via 100A BS88, and 6mm M.I. ring wiring.

It is still tested as a ring, irrespective.

Look at conductors in parallel - aka a ring with 1 point of utilisation - sort of.

If you don`t test the two legs individually, you`d test `em for "ring" continuity.......wouldn`t you?