50w halogen blowing fuse

[exbdc]

If the circuit is on a dimmer &/or the lamps are GU10, there has been instances of the lamp taking out fuses at end of life.

 

[Andy™]

a different TYPE not rating will resolve this. but a full test to confirm a higher type will operate with the correct earth loop would be needed to confirm this.

a higher rating will resolve problem of tripping when a lamp fails. i dont install many B6. i use either a C6 or a B10 where possible

anyone who designs a lighting circuit with a B6 has not designed the circuit correctly.

 

[Doc Hudson]

And where does it state in the OP that there were 500W halogen lights on the circuit?I was trying to have a laugh.

:C

Your post#11 quotes post#10 not the OP. So one naturally assumes you are replying to Apaches post#10, which itself a reply to the OP's post#9, where the question is raised of the total circuit load, not just the specific kitchen lamp issue. Your alleged attempt at humor is a little stretched to say the least. I assume any competent electrician when evaluating the options that could overload a lighting circuit would consider asking if there were any external floodlights run from the circuit. I certainly have seen properties that have DIY lights added without any thought of the circuit loading.

Doc H.

 

[Riggy]

[quote name='Andy

 

[PC Electrics]

Hi, is it common for a kitchen halogen lamp to blow a fuse? my customer says every time a light blows it takes the fuse out with it. could this suggest the circuit is on its limit and maybe overloaded? its a 5a wylex type fuse thank

Dan

There was an article about this in the ESCs Switched On magasine earlier this year (May have been longer ago). You could search the ESCs downloadable versions of the mag for it if you like.

What happens at the end of a lamps life is that the filament vapourises and produces a plasma inside the bulb. This plasma is highly conductive, so you get a current surge.

Now, the size and duration of this surge will vary from lamp to lamp. It is quite common for the surge created by GU10s (and sometimes other lamps too) to take out MCBs and fuses. I have personal experience of clients with both 1361 and 3036 having this problem, but it seems less common than with B6s.

In the case of MCBs the simple solution is to change a B6 for a C6 or B10. In the case of 5A 1361s you could change to 10A 1361s. With 5A 3036s there's nothing to be done.

Obviously if you're considering increasing the fuse rating from 5 or 6 to 10A, then you need to assess the cable and it's installation methods. Unless it's a very big house changing fom B6 to C6 shouldn't cause any issues, but best to check max Zs anyway.

Some say that cheap lamps make the problem worse. Certainly the cheap lamps which came with our kitchen lights trip the MCB every time and I am replacing them with these as they go:

http://www.screwfix.com/prods/82717/Lighting-Lamps/Lamps/240V-Halogen-Lamps/Osram-Halopar-16-Reflector-Halogen-Lamp-GU10-900Lm-40W-Pack-of-5

However, one of these Osram lamps 'blew' recently and still took out the MCB. So, based on a sample of one (not statistically valid) I cannot say if using 'quality' lamps makes it better or not.

Edit:

If you've got 3036s and it's an old Wylex board, you could always change the fuse carrier to an MCB:

http://www.screwfix.com/prods/48030/Electrical-Supplies/Consumer-Units/Wylex-MCBs-Incomers/WYLEX-6A-SP-Type-B-Curve-MCB

It may not cure the problem, but at least all they've got to do is switch back on instead of faffing about changing a 3036.

 

[batty]

DanThere was an article about this in the ESCs Switched On magasine earlier this year (May have been longer ago). You could search the ESCs downloadable versions of the mag for it if you like.

What happens at the end of a lamps life is that the filament vapourises and produces a plasma inside the bulb. This plasma is highly conductive, so you get a current surge.

Now, the size and duration of this surge will vary from lamp to lamp. It is quite common for the surge created by GU10s (and sometimes other lamps too) to take out MCBs and fuses. I have personal experience of clients with both 1361 and 3036 having this problem, but it seems less common than with B6s.

In the case of MCBs the simple solution is to change a B6 for a C6 or B10. In the case of 5A 1361s you could change to 10A 1361s. With 5A 3036s there's nothing to be done.

Obviously if you're considering increasing the fuse rating from 5 or 6 to 10A, then you need to assess the cable and it's installation methods. Unless it's a very big house changing fom B6 to C6 shouldn't cause any issues, but best to check max Zs anyway.

Some say that cheap lamps make the problem worse. Certainly the cheap lamps which came with our kitchen lights trip the MCB every time and I am replacing them with these as they go:

http://www.screwfix.com/prods/82717/Lighting-Lamps/Lamps/240V-Halogen-Lamps/Osram-Halopar-16-Reflector-Halogen-Lamp-GU10-900Lm-40W-Pack-of-5

However, one of these Osram lamps 'blew' recently and still took out the MCB. So, based on a sample of one (not statistically valid) I cannot say if using 'quality' lamps makes it better or not.

Edit:

If you've got 3036s and it's an old Wylex board, you could always change the fuse carrier to an MCB:

http://www.screwfix.com/prods/48030/Electrical-Supplies/Consumer-Units/Wylex-MCBs-Incomers/WYLEX-6A-SP-Type-B-Curve-MCB

It may not cure the problem, but at least all they've got to do is switch back on instead of faffing about changing a 3036.

Don't forget if you do change fuse circuit breaker type you will need to issue an eic and part p certificate though.

 

[steptoe]

How many wires would a 32A MCB need to have coming out of it before it was overloaded?Really? Can't say I can recall an RCD operating in the event of a lamp blowing.

just the 17 of them obviously,

are you a spark or not.?

[quote name='Andy

 

[Riggy]

:red card

very poor design,

you should have at least made provision for a future 15kW shower to be spurred of the light.

Actually, I've thought of that!

It's a Square D KQE breaker, so it's easy to remove the busbar connector from the top, fit a bit of 15A connector strip instead of the MCB - to join me "lectric wire" onto (better not to have them "trip switches" in my view, they keep tripping - clues in the name!) - job's a good un.

And before you say it, it's not notifiable, 'cos it's not a new circuit, and it's not a special location 'cos the shower ain't there yet!

This time next year Rodders.............................

 

[jackfrosty]

sorry, what i ment by the 2 wires is the fuse is protecting all the lights in the property, i know there is nothing wrong with this, as long as it isnt overloaded obviously. its a consumer unit change so will all get tested anyway, just wondered if these particular bulbs caused this problem commonly but thanks for all answers especially to PC electrics

 

[Lurch]

Check up on the use of bulbs and lamps. Obviously the subtle mentioning of the incorrect usage passed you by.

Bulbs - Alan Titchmarsh plants them in the ground

Lamps - Sparks fit them in lampholders

 

[steptoe]

Check up on the use of bulbs and lamps. Obviously the subtle mentioning of the incorrect usage passed you by.Bulbs - Alan Titchmarsh plants them in the ground

Lamps - Sparks fit them in lampholders

sidewinder put it very well a while back

bulbs grow

lamps glow

:Salute

 

[jackfrosty]

Were does phrase light bulb come from then?

 

[Lurch]

sidewinder put it very well a while backbulbs grow

lamps glow

:Salute

That was the subtle bit I was referring to

 

[a1]

Were does phrase light bulb come from then?

From the public.

 

[rugbymacc]

Ha Ha...... bulbs and lamps

when speaking to joe bloggs its a bulb

when speaking to another spark its a lamp

However I have been known to get it the wrong way round

 

[exbdc]

When I first joined the lighting industry I was told that lamps go in lampholders not bulbholders.

 

[PC Electrics]

Were does phrase light bulb come from then?

Well, the glass enclosure which contains the filament and the gas is known as the 'bulb'. So it's actually just one part of the overall assembly known as a lamp.

The term 'bulb' has been mis-appropriated to mean lamp, much in the same way as 'hoover' is used instead of 'vacuum cleaner'.

 

[Apache]

The term 'bulb' has been mis-appropriated to mean lamp, much in the same way as 'hoover' is used instead of 'vacuum cleaner'.

I see what you mean, but not the analogy. Saying much like people referring to St Stephen's tower as Big Ben as it is just one of the bells!

 

[muffin]

ive got to say i dont care! lamp, bulb, you all know what your are on about.

 

[Andy™]

wonder how you work that out,?easily. if you know a lamp failing is going to trip the MCB, then you use an alternative. exactly the same as you would use a C (or D) for motors etc, since they will trip a B type MCB

do you actually design anything or just do it cos thats how its usually done.?i do design stuff. and i dont just do something 'because thats how its usually done'.

how would you actually cope given a spec that stated 6A type B protection via BS61009 required.?ask the designer why he wants a circuit using a type of MCB that is known to cause problems, when there is a very easy alternative which removes the problem.

my red