About to finish Apprenticeship do i need extra train for this role?

[Gxorge]

Hi there my name is George,

I have been doing an Electrical apprenticeship for over 3 years and coming to the end of it very soon. Finally. Unfortunately, I don't see myself staying with my current employer. I would like to get into fire alarms and security installations (CCTV, door, access controls etc.). But I have no clue if my qualification allows me to carry out the work? Will I have to do another apprenticeship? This type of work I have never carried out before. Also, will the pay be similar to an electrician? 

Thanks for your help.

 

[Sharpend]

Simple answer is no& no. 

You will however have to learn the job from scratch although this shouldn't be difficult if you have an understanding of electrikery and circuits. So you'll need to hook up with a company that does this work and go from there, it's not as interesting as it first appears, but there are those that make a living from it and seemingly enjoy it.

 

[binky]

read lots of manuals/ installation instructions on the internet. Some supply companies offer short training courses, 1 / 2 days on CCTV and the lke, which shows how hard it isn't, not that there isn't many potential pitfalls that are easy to fall in to.

 

[Sidewinder]

read lots of manuals/ installation instructions on the internet. Some supply companies offer short training courses, 1 / 2 days on CCTV and the lke, which shows how hard it isn't, not that there isn't many potential pitfalls that are easy to fall in to.

OK 1 to 2 days for CCTV, but it's only 25 days to be a sparky!

Apparently

 

[binky]

80% easier then...

 

[Sharpend]

And what's Ike got to do with it? Thought he was condemned years ago? :C  

 

[Richard-the-Ninth]

Hello George, and now the not what you want to hear news. Your qualifications mean nothing in the alarm industry :innocent

Yes you can easily understand the theory of how things work and how big the power supply should be, but it doesn't work like that.

At the end of the day it comes down to cost

Intruder / CCTV / Access control

An intruder alarm company will already know that to install an intruder alarm with say 10 devices they know the panel can supply the amount of current required and they will put in this size of battery (Because that's what they always do)

Its similar with access control and CCTV

I have even met "alarm engineers" who have no idea how anything works, but they know if they put this wire here, that wire there and press these buttons in this order the alarm will work. In short there is no qualifications needed to work in the alarm industry, and so they pay accordingly. They even fit FCU's because that is what the bloke showed them what to do.

With CCTV, people can see the end result, so are often happy, access control is a thing most folk despise, intruder alarms are things that call you out at 3 in the morning are always going wrong.

Fire alarms

This is where a few people my not agree. Again forget anything about being an electrician, its all designed for you. Long gone are the days of mains fire alarms using pyro and gents sirens. The emphasis with fire alarms is its a life safety system and you need to be aware of the regulations and requirements of fire alarms. Fire alarms are a thing that only big places have, and they don't need one. (They also install emergency lights, and even these have their own regulations)

What to do?

Its your choice. There are some companies out there that do everything, but are they any good? do they really know the correct regulations for everything?  I have seen folk with intruder alarms say they also have a fire alarm because that is what they believe, when all they have is a few smoke detectors connected to an intruder alarm. I would look at both, and decide which you like the sound of best (Either way you usually start at the bottom installing cables and devices) and then apply to a company that specialises in it, I wouldn't go to a company that one team does all, and as I have already said the money is often not that great, but then you will have only just finished your apprenticeship so will have no "real experience" / can live on "lower money"

In finishing

I really do wish you good luck, don't rush into making a decision, either can be a rewarding job.

 

[binky]

I usually get a supplier to spec a sysem based on clients desires, so effectively buy a kit and fit it. If you can read a manual and comply with instructions then this work is quite easy. The fun bit, like all jobs, is sorting out issues when they arise. Again oart of the reason I buy kits, is that if nay issues arise, I can contact the supplier for help.

 

[Evans Electric]

Just make sure you have all the necessary electrician qualifications under your belt before you jump ship.  

In my experience many alarm & security firms employ electricians .........I believe the pay is less .    

Have you thought of moving to another contractor ?

 

[Andy™]

Hi there my name is George,

I have been doing an Electrical apprenticeship for over 3 years and coming to the end of it very soon. Finally. Unfortunately, I don't see myself staying with my current employer. I would like to get into fire alarms and security installations (CCTV, door, access controls etc.). But I have no clue if my qualification allows me to carry out the work? Will I have to do another apprenticeship? This type of work I have never carried out before. Also, will the pay be similar to an electrician? 

Thanks for your help.

depends what you are doing now, but your qualifications will generally be on wiring that comes under 7671, other stuff may have other regs to go with it. fire alarms have their own regulations, you would need to know that to do anything with them. security installations are not too bad either but as already mentioned many just install and dont know how they work so when it doesnt do as expected they are well stuck. again, they also have their own regs, but for some domestic systems you dont really need all that, but you most likely would for commercial. door entry is mostly straight forward too but again, different from what you are probably doing now. if youre any good then you should be able to do more than just basic electrics. a lot of manufacturers have installation manuals available online (might have to ask / register for access though) which makes it a bit easier. try downloading some and have a look through them first

for access, paxton have some free courses that someone ( @phil d i think) mentioned a few weeks ago. no idea if its any good, but ive booked one in a few month

 

[binky]

paxton controls are quite good in my experience, fitted a few over the years without any need for a course. Lots of the free courses are more like sales pitches and bugger-all technical

 

[Andy™]

paxton controls are quite good in my experience, fitted a few over the years without any need for a course. Lots of the free courses are more like sales pitches and bugger-all technical

same here, but only really use the compacts with the odd switch2. never done anything with net2. but since the course is free....

 

[kerching]

I have done a few Net2 systems.

extremely good product....very intuitive.

i had no training and only phoned them a couple of times

never went on a course...but it would be worth it as I only learnt what I needed to know so probably missed loads of tricks

just saying

 

[Richard-the-Ninth]

As binky said, most free courses are just a sales thing to show you you what their kit does in the hopes you will buy it, so for most people they are a waste of time and I would say to suggest going on any free course for for some one to get an insight into a product gives false hope as it will be of no benefit. Any company you join will either train you or send you on a course for the kit they use, so no point going on a sales course for a product that the company you join does not use.

Also if you go on a free course and the company you join does use that kit, they will still send you on the same course as you did not attend the course while employed by them.

 

[Evans Electric]

I always have the impression that the security & Fire companies I came across used cable hands to wack the wiring in  and fit the accessories.    The next stage up would be the guy who commissions and does the call outs.   

Many years ago I was asked to sub-contract to a major alarm firm ,  seems they were falling behind with the work .  I did a month for them wiring alarms in schools , I said why don't you give me the detectors etc ....while I'm in a room drilling & wiring I could fit them .  

They couldn't do it as they  wern't allowed to tell me what colours they used .

I could have been there for months but was bored out of my skull TBH .....peeing about with tiny alarm cable and that mad tiny conduit they use.