Advice needed scoping work for electrician

[apprentice87]

It's BLACK or RED ENWL say red on the spec I had.



Not the case. Just had a customer do this hence how I know it's possible.

It is black for LV. The red ones are for HV.

The DNO will NOT install a service cable until you can give them an MPAN. [which you get from the supplier you have contracted with. This is to stop you arranging unmetered supplies..

john..

 

[apprentice87]

Hello again. Thank you everyone for the helpful and informative replies; I've been reading them as they came in and mulling it over throughout the day (two kids under 5 leave little time for thoughtful replies).

To clarify (though perhaps a moot point) the existing supply, in the first image below the pole on the left is the terminal pole and has a 3-phase supply (my intended source). My current connection, as a pair of aerial wires, travels from the pole to the corner of the end terrace house and, unadulterated, from there jumps across to my house on the right (ignore the wires disappearing off the top - that's a single telephone wire doubled by google street view). The tall tree is between the pole and my house and is likely the reason that the connection is dog legged - though I bought in 2017, I've remembered now that my home was extended in 1998 and the connection must have been re-made as it traverses what was new construction. My connection contacts my home just where you can see the satelite dish poking over the hedge, moves to the front of the building and then horizontally to the drainpipe - you can see the black line above the left-hand window. It travels down behind the drain pipe to ingress at a height of about 2 metres.

My connection is not looped or shared as the houses to left of frame recieve their supply from the rear.

View attachment 15017

I know that the pole is 3 phase as somehow I got myself on the phone to the Design and Planning Manager at the DNO. In discussion with him I explained that I know 3 phase connections can cost anywhere from £2k to £15k+ for 'normal' residential connections (and I know it can be magnitudes of that for remote locations). The design manager said that this pole was 3-phase, did have capacity for my needs, and an underground connection would be very inexpensive in context - likely just a few thousand. On that basis I hoped that 3-phase was a possibility.

Below is a wider plan of the property, existing supply, and candidate new supply routes. The new supply would need to drop down from the pole and then be trenched by the DNO along the footpath to the point at which it crosses my property border. Red is preferred but might be cost prohibitive; blue might reduce the DNO cost to acceptable levels at the expense of additional trenching on my land. Part of the blue route is necessary either way to connect the garage to the existing CU to the left of the front door.

View attachment 15018

The general advice that I have recieved in this thread, with some filtering, is that:

1. I'm not barking mad, and the rough plan will work;
2. I could 'move' my supply to the garage without DNO involvement - legging it out and back;
3. It would be better to first attempt to move the supply formally with DNO involvement, and tie this in with a supply upgrade;
4. To achieve my basic immediate aim (energy storage) would need an increase in my supply (DNO involvement) from 60A to 80A or 100A;
5. To achieve my longer term aim would saturate a 1-phase supply and necessitate a 3-phase supply;
6. The earlier I involve the DNO, the better.

A couple of days ago I submitted to the DNO a request for quotation for a single-phase upgrade (100A). This evening I have submitted a request for quotation for the 3-phase supply. The prices that I get back will dictate both my immediate plans and those long term.

I do find it frustrating that this is such a complex process (in general; not just with the DNO) for the home-owner. Aside from or even including the batteries, my plan isn't anything that I consider unreasonable. With the widespread move to EVs and goverment intent to phase out residential gas supplies in the medium term, many home owners are going to be doing exactly what I'm attempting: installing car charger(s), ASHP, immersion heaters, induction cookers. I would argue that these loads combine to a level that necessitates a 3-phase supply for many properties, and the overall process isn't easy. I believe that what I'm asking now will be the norm in a decade, and someone will need to create a better process, be that DNOs or government.


I thank you all again for the time taken to read and advise on my predicament. I'll keep this thread updated as I'm sure I will have more questions; currently I haven't managed to engage an electrician nor contacted my energy supplier (EON) to find out if they're even willing to fit a 3-phase smart meter, so there's a long road ahead.

If you do some digging around, you will most likely find that the DNO publish a price guide for installation work, this might help. I DO know, that if the DNO dig trenches, there is one rate for in the road, another for in footpaths, and another for on your land. Obviously, dig the ones on your land yourself.

Another point; the blue route. IF the DNO will lay the cable direct in the ground, this would be ok, BUT, they might well want a duct in case the cable ever has to be replaced, as it will be their property after installation. This means, the duct will have to be laid in a straight line, complete with drawrope, as you will not get the cable round all them bends, not a hope.. I have done TWO new supply projects. In both of them, the DNO supplied the duct for free. Ask them about this, as then you know it is the right stuff. You could install the duct at leisure and back fill it all. This would be by far the easiest.. Then when the DNO come, it will all be done in a matter of a few hours..

I do not think there is such a thing as a three phase smart meter, but might be wrong..

john..

 

[mort2376]

Electricity North West specification duct is always red and embossed 'Danger Electricity Cables', with no exceptions and should follow what is in our pack.

That is direct from their website. Also if your upgrading your supply from single to 3 phase they will do the install and connect your existing single phase meter if they are removing the old supply too.

 

[apprentice87]

Electricity North West specification duct is always red and embossed 'Danger Electricity Cables', with no exceptions and should follow what is in our pack.

That is direct from their website. Also if your upgrading your supply from single to 3 phase they will do the install and connect your existing single phase meter if they are removing the old supply too.

Must be different in different parts of the country. WPD the biggest DNO in the country, use black ducts..

They tell you; "Black Alkathene service ducting shall be used. Black is the only colour to be used for electrical service cables, to prevent confusion with other utility services"

Wonder why the difference??

john..