Hi, I'm a homeowner looking for some advice on how to pitch (potentially piecemeal) to one or more electricians/firms a large project, and whether or not what I'm pitching is sensible - before I spend too much money. That has brought me as a brand new member to this forum. I hope my question is in the right place; if not I expect that the mods can relocate it. It's a long post to provide sufficient context so I've skipped what I feel is unnecessary in an introductory post, but can expand if helpful.
I own a detached house in County Durham on a 60A supply where my current usage spike is 45A. I have been watching videos on home battery systems for several years - since before the energy crisis and ESS becoming a 'craze' - and I really want to implement my own system to reduce my bills (£800/month), transition to electric rather than fossil fuels, and as it's a personal interest. I've never been in a financial position to act upon my interest but that has changed recently so I want to start the project and use my money wisely, though I don't have the funds to pull the trigger on the whole thing - only to tackle 'phase 1', batteries & inverters.
I am more keen on energy storage and time-shifting my usage to cheap night-time rates than I am on generating my own electricity - not least because I would need to replace an old roof before I could install PV panels. So I want a large battery array (daily usage typically 20-25kWh, annual usage 9MWh), a decent inverter, to load up the batteries overnight, and to be entirely 'off grid' outside of cheap night-time rates, with no intention for grid export (initially). For this I intend to use Victron inverters and components and Pylontech rack-mounted batteries; fairly standard gear for those not wanting an off-the-shelf solution.
The overall 'project' has a lot of potential and future arms and legs. Currently space heating, domestic hot water, and cooking is via gas (36MWh annual), and in time that will be shifted to electric (ASHP for the heating - I already have wet UFH). My closed loop hot water cylinder has 5kW auxilliery immersion coil. I have 2 ICE cars that will be replaced with EVs in the near future. Once I replace the roof I will potentially install PV, though the array would be small due to roof profile (8 facets). In considering these future extensions I wish for a flexible design that allows for expansion. My concern is the 4-hour overnight window and the fact that I would need to draw down a lot of energy to fill the batteries (30kWh in near future, expanding to accommodate future transition to electric), run the immersion, charge the cars, run household loads including washing machine / tumble dryer. My existing 60A 1 phase supply would never cope so would need to be upgraded to either 100A (if the local grid could accommodate) or to a 3 phase connection (if not price-prohibitive).
I'm a IT project manager by trade, so my first thought was to list my requirements, put together a very high-level plan (4 major phases, each with benefits that mean they can be staged with years between each if necessary), and engage with a company that could consult/design/deliver on this. I reached out to a number of companies - not one-man-bands, not national firms, but a few in between - and only had one willing to visit site and quote me. Rather than issue a quote, however, they responded after 3 weeks to inform me that the project was too large for them. Whether that is the truth, or the fact that I knew what I wanted was not an off-the-shelf option, or because engagement with DNO / energy company was too difficult, I am unsure. It's definitely possible that they viewed the job as more trouble than it was worth.
I can't start DIYing this due to the current position of the meter box, explained later. This leaves me in a position where I am struggling to get the work off the ground and need to know how I could alternatively pitch it. My current thinking is to break it down into discrete work packages, likely dropping the idea of 3 phase supply and major DNO engagement, and get these work packages delivered without necessarily the need to discuss the wider project. But that means that there's no competent design authority (I'd consider myself half-way there; I know enough to get into trouble). Thus I'm looking for some confirmation / validation that I'm approaching it in the correct way and not making a mistake.
The first work package, I think, is to relocate my supply to the garage. I have no external meterbox; currently the supply cable enters the property beside my front door. Inside I have a small cupboard hosting the cutout, smart meter, and consumer unit. This location isn't at all appropriate for batteries / inverter etc., which would be much more appropriately sited in the garage some 12m away. The reason for relocating my supply rather than just hooking into the existing 40A garage circuit or as a new single-legged circuit from the consumer unit is that I wish to use the Victron gear as a UPS, in off-grid mode during the day with anti-islanding in case of power failure. This requires that the critical loads (and I am considering the entirety of my current usage as critical load) must be behind the inverter. I'm comfortable in my understanding of what equipment is needed for this (that is, discussing inverter brands isn't the purpose of this initial request for advice). Thus I don't just want the inverter simply connected to the existing consumer unit, I want it between the smart meter and the consumer unit. To achieve this I do not believe (though am willing to be corrected) that I need to engage the DNO to 'relocate supply' (Northern Powergrid application process is not particularly user-friendly). Instead, where I currently have 50cm tails from the smart meter to the consumer unit (via two-pole breaker), I believe I can instead have a 12m run between the smart meter and the inverter, and a 12m run back between the inverter and the consumer unit. In doing so I can fit one or more new consumer units in the garage, beside the inverter, ready for future expansion (ASHP, EVSE, electric hob), making the garage area the master and the existing consumer unit a sub-panel.
Relocating the supply (or, rather, relocating the 'master' area) would be a discrete job, would not require an electrician specialising in inverters / batteries / EVSE, and would leave me in a position to continue the next steps of batteries and inverter separately. Is this a viable start to the project? It gets high-amperage power to where I need it to be. I'm aware that there are regs regarding the length of meter tails, but the replacement of the tails would be by way of 2 proper 100A 230V twin and earth cables (trenched and in conduit; armoured?). My overhead supply is far more precarious: 70-year-old separate aerial line and neutrals (6 inches air-gapped) from the pole to the exterior of my neighbour's house (15m, not a looped supply) and thence to my own building (10m) two stories up, before tracking a further 15m as twin-core to the point of ingress (CPC via earth rod rather than via supply). So the DNO is clearly happy with this 40m of not-the-best quality cabling; are the regs happy with me effectively extending this a further 24m via high quality cables?
My preference is that the run to the garage should be underground, in conduit, trenched through an old asphalt driveway which will be replaced at a later date. The trench would cross perpendicular to and under my property's water supply, gas supply, and two 6" sewer lines (rainwater). I intend to have the cable burial as part of the initial work package; that the electrician can supply / organise the trenching or at lease recommend / liaise with a suitable company. Is this realistic? I have attached a high-level diagram of the trenching proposed. Having run out of better ideas I intend to post this first work package as a job on MyBuilder. Would that be a mistake?
I have made an application / formal quote request to Northern Powergrid to upgrade my cutout from 60A to 100A. In separating the work packages like this and losing design authority I need to either give up on the idea of 3 phase supply (and my dreams of 2x 22kW EVSE) or at least defer it, as I don't have the expertise to make complicated DNO applications without assistance from an electrician.
Thank you sincerely to all those who have read this far, and even moreso in advance to anyone able to offer constructive feedback.
I own a detached house in County Durham on a 60A supply where my current usage spike is 45A. I have been watching videos on home battery systems for several years - since before the energy crisis and ESS becoming a 'craze' - and I really want to implement my own system to reduce my bills (£800/month), transition to electric rather than fossil fuels, and as it's a personal interest. I've never been in a financial position to act upon my interest but that has changed recently so I want to start the project and use my money wisely, though I don't have the funds to pull the trigger on the whole thing - only to tackle 'phase 1', batteries & inverters.
I am more keen on energy storage and time-shifting my usage to cheap night-time rates than I am on generating my own electricity - not least because I would need to replace an old roof before I could install PV panels. So I want a large battery array (daily usage typically 20-25kWh, annual usage 9MWh), a decent inverter, to load up the batteries overnight, and to be entirely 'off grid' outside of cheap night-time rates, with no intention for grid export (initially). For this I intend to use Victron inverters and components and Pylontech rack-mounted batteries; fairly standard gear for those not wanting an off-the-shelf solution.
The overall 'project' has a lot of potential and future arms and legs. Currently space heating, domestic hot water, and cooking is via gas (36MWh annual), and in time that will be shifted to electric (ASHP for the heating - I already have wet UFH). My closed loop hot water cylinder has 5kW auxilliery immersion coil. I have 2 ICE cars that will be replaced with EVs in the near future. Once I replace the roof I will potentially install PV, though the array would be small due to roof profile (8 facets). In considering these future extensions I wish for a flexible design that allows for expansion. My concern is the 4-hour overnight window and the fact that I would need to draw down a lot of energy to fill the batteries (30kWh in near future, expanding to accommodate future transition to electric), run the immersion, charge the cars, run household loads including washing machine / tumble dryer. My existing 60A 1 phase supply would never cope so would need to be upgraded to either 100A (if the local grid could accommodate) or to a 3 phase connection (if not price-prohibitive).
I'm a IT project manager by trade, so my first thought was to list my requirements, put together a very high-level plan (4 major phases, each with benefits that mean they can be staged with years between each if necessary), and engage with a company that could consult/design/deliver on this. I reached out to a number of companies - not one-man-bands, not national firms, but a few in between - and only had one willing to visit site and quote me. Rather than issue a quote, however, they responded after 3 weeks to inform me that the project was too large for them. Whether that is the truth, or the fact that I knew what I wanted was not an off-the-shelf option, or because engagement with DNO / energy company was too difficult, I am unsure. It's definitely possible that they viewed the job as more trouble than it was worth.
I can't start DIYing this due to the current position of the meter box, explained later. This leaves me in a position where I am struggling to get the work off the ground and need to know how I could alternatively pitch it. My current thinking is to break it down into discrete work packages, likely dropping the idea of 3 phase supply and major DNO engagement, and get these work packages delivered without necessarily the need to discuss the wider project. But that means that there's no competent design authority (I'd consider myself half-way there; I know enough to get into trouble). Thus I'm looking for some confirmation / validation that I'm approaching it in the correct way and not making a mistake.
The first work package, I think, is to relocate my supply to the garage. I have no external meterbox; currently the supply cable enters the property beside my front door. Inside I have a small cupboard hosting the cutout, smart meter, and consumer unit. This location isn't at all appropriate for batteries / inverter etc., which would be much more appropriately sited in the garage some 12m away. The reason for relocating my supply rather than just hooking into the existing 40A garage circuit or as a new single-legged circuit from the consumer unit is that I wish to use the Victron gear as a UPS, in off-grid mode during the day with anti-islanding in case of power failure. This requires that the critical loads (and I am considering the entirety of my current usage as critical load) must be behind the inverter. I'm comfortable in my understanding of what equipment is needed for this (that is, discussing inverter brands isn't the purpose of this initial request for advice). Thus I don't just want the inverter simply connected to the existing consumer unit, I want it between the smart meter and the consumer unit. To achieve this I do not believe (though am willing to be corrected) that I need to engage the DNO to 'relocate supply' (Northern Powergrid application process is not particularly user-friendly). Instead, where I currently have 50cm tails from the smart meter to the consumer unit (via two-pole breaker), I believe I can instead have a 12m run between the smart meter and the inverter, and a 12m run back between the inverter and the consumer unit. In doing so I can fit one or more new consumer units in the garage, beside the inverter, ready for future expansion (ASHP, EVSE, electric hob), making the garage area the master and the existing consumer unit a sub-panel.
Relocating the supply (or, rather, relocating the 'master' area) would be a discrete job, would not require an electrician specialising in inverters / batteries / EVSE, and would leave me in a position to continue the next steps of batteries and inverter separately. Is this a viable start to the project? It gets high-amperage power to where I need it to be. I'm aware that there are regs regarding the length of meter tails, but the replacement of the tails would be by way of 2 proper 100A 230V twin and earth cables (trenched and in conduit; armoured?). My overhead supply is far more precarious: 70-year-old separate aerial line and neutrals (6 inches air-gapped) from the pole to the exterior of my neighbour's house (15m, not a looped supply) and thence to my own building (10m) two stories up, before tracking a further 15m as twin-core to the point of ingress (CPC via earth rod rather than via supply). So the DNO is clearly happy with this 40m of not-the-best quality cabling; are the regs happy with me effectively extending this a further 24m via high quality cables?
My preference is that the run to the garage should be underground, in conduit, trenched through an old asphalt driveway which will be replaced at a later date. The trench would cross perpendicular to and under my property's water supply, gas supply, and two 6" sewer lines (rainwater). I intend to have the cable burial as part of the initial work package; that the electrician can supply / organise the trenching or at lease recommend / liaise with a suitable company. Is this realistic? I have attached a high-level diagram of the trenching proposed. Having run out of better ideas I intend to post this first work package as a job on MyBuilder. Would that be a mistake?
I have made an application / formal quote request to Northern Powergrid to upgrade my cutout from 60A to 100A. In separating the work packages like this and losing design authority I need to either give up on the idea of 3 phase supply (and my dreams of 2x 22kW EVSE) or at least defer it, as I don't have the expertise to make complicated DNO applications without assistance from an electrician.
Thank you sincerely to all those who have read this far, and even moreso in advance to anyone able to offer constructive feedback.
