Advice Please

[SWatson1985]

Hi all,

I am 30 years old, former soldier, currently in a decent paying job but now want a career change and have decided an electrician is what I want to do.

My current job involves me working abroad, away from my family which is why I have decided a change is needed.

I currently have no experience in electrics so will be starting from scratch. I do have a BTEC Level 3 in Mechanical engineering and NEBOSH international general certificate in health & safety. Which I'm hoping will both go for me when applying for jobs?

I have been looking around the internet extensively and am pretty confused to be honest.

Can anyone please tell me what I need to do?

I have seen all different kinds of C&G with all combination of numbers, NVQ's, AM2, EAL diplomas, QCF quals, level 2's and 3's, PAT testing quals, government approved part p scheme provider etc.. But I really don't know where to start.

I realise there is domestic and then commercial, so I thought to start I should concentrate on becoming domestic first and then train for commercial later to save on both cost and time?

Of course an apprenticeship is not an option and nor is on the job training to gain a qualification because of my current situation.

Luckily with my current job I have the option to take time out when I like and could take up to 2 months off to train.

Can anyone please advise me of exactly what courses I need to do to become a fully qualified electrician and be able to quit my current job and start applying to and working for a company as an electrician.

Any help would be really appreciated.

Thank you.

Steve.

 

[Andy™]

do you really think you could take 'up to 2 month off to train' when an apprenticeship takes 4 years?

best route would be through your local college, but do not expect it to take 2 month, it will take a lot longer, and even after that, you will have very limited practical experience so whilst you may be qualified, you would be best working with an electrician for a while before working alone (either employed or SE)

and part p isnt a qualification, its a building regulation which you need to comply with for domestic work, but this is pretty much irrelevant to you if you are employed

 

[NozSpark]

A 5 week course does not an electrician make,,,, especially for someone who has no previous experience

 

[NozSpark]

You've already posted this question....

 

[SWatson1985]

Hi guys,

No of course I didn't think it would take just 2 months to train to be fully qualified. I meant that I can take off 2 months at a time to do residential training course i.e not have to do weekend or evening classes to get qualified. 

For example: 

Level 2 Diploma in Electrical Installations (Buildings and Structures) (2365-02) - 10 weeks - £4245Steve.

 

[Andy™]

if thats with a 'training company', walk away

 

[SWatson1985]

Yes I am ideally looking to do qualifications with a private training provider, not a collage. Is that not advised?

There is also ones like this;

Basic domestic installer - 18days - £2245

You get;

C&G 4141-01 - electrical installation work within a domestic dwelling

C&G 2393 - part p building regs

C&G 2392-10 - inspection and testing

C&G2382-15 - 17th edition wiring regs

 

[Andy™]

avoid them. you will get ripped off, they will tell you that you will be an electrician at the end of the course, even though i wouldnt even employ you as an electricians mate with your 'training'. and they are trying to sell you a course that is a building regulation

 

[NozSpark]

Have a search through a few threads on here.... There have been several people complaining about short course training providers..

and then loads of questions as all they have are bits of paper without the underlying knowledge

 

[kerching]

Son in law put in his papers to come out of RAF as he was sick of not getting "picked up" and had done his 12 years

Went on an "electricians course"....cannot remember what it was

Completed course and passed

Then he gets set to some far flung outpost of our ONCE great nation to fix something ( cannot say what)

Gets back to UK

Gets "picked up" so he is still "in".....this was only a few months ago

Cut to last week.......his parents are having a new kitchen which i got landed with it. Loads of downlights off the 4 existing switches.

WAGO box on each existing point ( or move it) then run twin to each point. Not really rocket science. He came. home and could bot work out how it had been done .....new dropped stud frame ceiling with no plasterboard fitted yet. All cable visible and clipped in straight lines

Go figure

Just saying

 

[ProDave]

These "short courses" were set up as a refresher to enable an electrician with old out of date qualifications to be able to refresh them to current standards to join one of the self certification schemes.  Unfortunately they seem to have become used as "become an electrician in 5 weeks" courses.  They were never intended for that and never will be able to provide that. It's a shame the course providers are only interested in taking your money rather than ensuring it's the right course for you.

The first question I ask in these situations is do you already have an interest in electrical circuits? Do you understand basic electrical circuits? Have you done any electrical work? And if the answer to all those is no, then what makes you think being an electrician is going to be right for you?

Most of us on here have done 4 (sometimes 5) year apprenticeships to get where we are and we know it's simply not possible to become an electrician in a matter of weeks.

Also the courses teach you how to pass an exam to show you know the regulations. That's fine if all you ever intend to do is new installations where you can install to the current regs. But what about when you get called to fault find an old installation that was wired years ago to an older version of the regs (sometimes a LOT older) and has different coloured cables and circuit configurations not normally used now.  No course is going to teach you how to deal with that, and that is the sort of stuff you learn on the job as an apprentice with a qualified and experienced mentor to show you the ropes and impart his years of experience.

If you really want to do it, try to find somewhere that will take you on as an apprentice, thought sadly that's harder to find these days.

 

[apprentice87]

Now, i am not qualified or anything, but i have a "fair" idea what i am doing and am VERY far from stupid, but anyone that thinks that they are going to pass C+G certs in inspection and testing in 18 days is dreaming.. I certainly could not do it. It is one thing doing things in tech, another thing altogether in the "real world..

Could i go to ITC catterick and learn to be a soldier in 18 days??? of course not... I used to have a firearms cert and can run about in a field, but that does not make me a soldier......

PLEASE do not waste you money on these course things...... Go to your local college and do evening classes... It will be a LOT cheaper, you will learn a LOT more, and you will have time for it all to sink in... "knowing" is one thing, "understanding" is another.....

PLEASE PLEASE do nto think we are a load of funnys ****ers on here.. or trying to run a "closed shop" Take a look at the number of threads on here trying to help people...

Then folks on here just do not want to see you ripped off, and if you go to one of the "training providers" you WILL BE....

john...

 

[kerching]

+ 1 to what the "welder" above said^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Also have a look at the number of threads on here from "the recently certified" who do not seem to,be able to fathom out the simplest of faults/problems/situations/methods

Just trying to save you from wasting your time and money

 

[NozSpark]

I won't say how long my 2391 course was then apprentice

However my apprenticeship was in electrical, electronic and avionics... A job I did for 17 years

 

[SWatson1985]

Hi guys,

Thanks for all of your help and advice. I really didn't know any of this went on.

Please be assured though that I never for one moment though I could have done a 5 week course and then become an electrician. I known its not an easy job at all.

I just thought it might have been a case of doing these sort of  "training provider" courses (C&G's and 17th edition and diplomas etc...) over a year or so and then sending out my CV and maybe starting at a company at the bottom as say a trainee type.

However I think I'm not really in a position to be able to be an apprentice, not with my age and the fact that I'd be on an apprentices wage for 4 or 5 years. As most of us do, I have a family to support.

I just cannot believe the cheek of these companies. One of them is charging blokes 7 and a half grand for the level 2 and 3 diplomas for 16 weeks. They really do take the **ss! 

Oh well. It seems it might be back to the drawing board. Again!

Thanks guys.

Much appreciated.

Steve

 

[binky]

you would be better off persuing a career using your NEBOSh training.

as an adult apprentice, you would basically be too expensive to employ. The only way you may make this work would be working with a friend after doing a 5WW course. The technical training is perfectly good in that time scale, but as said above, the hands on experience will be difficult to get. It's not impossible to do, but would you be able to pay the mortgage whilst earning poor money?

 

[SPECIAL LOCATION]

I will try and give an example of what I think is a fundamental mistake that many people make about electrical work, qualifications, wiring regulations and the training associated with it...

Consider driving and the highway code...

Pretend I have set up a training company that will give intensive training on the Highway code..

At the end of my 10day course costing £500 you will be an expert in the highway code..

you will know it inside out..

My adverts claim that...

"you will be ready to be a qualified HGV driver doing delivery's for major haulage companies"

BUT...

we don't tell you how to pass the HGV driving test OR how to read a map to plan your route(s) around the UK.

Now consider a "wiring regs" training company...

At the end of our 'x' day course costing £yy.zz you will have a reasonable knowledge of BS7617 wiring regualtions.... 

And you will know which button to press on your meter to do a particular test

(allegedly you will be ready to be an electrician working for loads of companies crying out for experienced electricians)

BUT...

you will have very minimal knowledge of designing electrical instalions....

Calculating circuits loadings / cable sizes / fuse ratings / diversity etc... etc..  etc..

You will have NO training on older issues of wiring regualtions..

or how to interpret what is safe / unsafe when comparing older installations to current regulations. 

You will have negligible training on fault finding installations when things that used to work stop working..

You will have negligible understanding of how to interpret the readings you get off you test meter..

You could have no understanding of the difference between RCD's / MCB's and manual double pole 100A isolating switches.

90%+ of employers will not touch you as you have no experience!

So if you can get a course for £150.00 -> £200.00 max then it may be a worthwhile punt..

If you are paying £3000.00 +  (University fees used to be this much for a year!) 

Then unless they are guaranteeing a work placement at the end of it then its one hell of a lot of a gamble

for sod-all return!!!!

:C

Go and spend £80 on a copy of the current regs..

have a read of it ..

see how much you understand...

A basic understanding of Ohms law,

relationships between, Voltage, Current, Power....

understanding Resistance, Inductance, Capacitance....

Operating concepts of transformers, AC & DC voltages, Relays, Contactors,  

etc...

etc...

All seem to be skipped over or ignored by some training companies judging by some of the questions we get on here!

It is NOT impossible for someone to change career and be successful in a new trade..

BUT..

if you don't already have the basic underpinning knowledge and principals of electrical science then you are leaving yourself at a disadvantage to others you will be competing against...

Like trying to run a 100m sprint but you have a ball & chain around your leg..

you may well finish..

But you WILL be last in the pecking order!!!!

opcorn

 

[apprentice87]

And further to the HGV analogy... You might pas your HGV test, but NO-ONE will EVER employ you, as you have no experience. I have an HGV i did many years ago.

The first interview i went for, i walked in, and they said "do not sit down, you will not be here that long" I did get the job, and it was only loading trailers down the docks, BUT, i only got it as i had been about lorries since i was a kid, AND i could demonstrate that i could rope and sheet trailers, AND i had lots of mechanical knowledge, AND the wages were about a 1/4 of what they should have been..... AND for the first day i was with one of their other drivers who was there to see if i was safe to drive the thing or not...

Trust me, one thing i can do is drive... I did my bike test last year, no poncy course, just turned up and did it on my own bike. CBT on my own bike.... EASY... Theory test..... EASY... Module one on my other bike... EASY.. Module two.. EASY..

Had 1 minor fault for going 1MPH too slow on the swerve test on the mod 1 and no points at all on the mod 2. Oh yes, i can drive....

Anyway, you pass your HGV test, and then...................... you drive a "proper one"..........   OMG......... What the ****....  different world..... and do not forget i already knew how to work the transmission etc. [What you mean when you do your 3 day course they do not tell you about splitters and rangechangers...] I asked the instructor to see what they said and they did not know!!!!!

Back to the first job.... was only there a week... Then i went for an interview with another firm, but in the first firms lorry!!!! [that fooled em!!] Instant job, triple the money!!!!

I had been there about a week, and they said; "the trailer there is loaded for you for liverpool in the morning" I said; "Ah cool" They asked if i had ever been to liverpool, i said "no".

They came back 5 minutes later and said; "You have never been anywhere!!!! our sister in law works for [name of the last firm] and you were only there a week!!!!!!"

Kept my job though as they could plainly see i was ok. They had a huge yard and had seen me zooming about playing games with the transmission, sheeting trailers, parking the things in teeny gaps etc etc..

I think it will be the same with electrical work.... No experience, absolutely no chance of a job...

You COULD be self employed, but you are guaranteed to come unstuck on your first day....... and lose money when you have to pay someone to sort it all out..... It will happen......

I was in a steel stockholders once. A young chap came up to me and asked very politely if i could help him. I said yes.. He led me across to his lorry, showed me a switch on the side of the gearlever and asked; "what is that for"???!!!!!!

I said; "it is the range change" It is how you change from high to low.

He said that he had wondered what it was, but did not like to meddle with it.. I asked him how long he had been driving, he said "about 3 days" I asked "what?? You have driven everywhere in high range??" He said "yes".....  I said; Was it not rather difficult to pull off??? He said that yes it was, and that he had wondered what the problem was!!!

He packed in the next day..

Electricity is invisible, tasteless, odourless, but by god it bites..... [bit tricky to work with..]

Not like them plumbers!!!! "Oooo look!! it is squirting out over there!!!!!"

john....

 

[septiclecky]

What has not been said is that all these training companies are churning out people from these courses stating you will earn £50,000 knowing there is a cats in hells chance also due to this the domestic game is now flooded with 5WW's

 

[ProDave]

Anyway, you pass your HGV test, and then...................... you drive a "proper one"..........   OMG......... What the ****....  different world..... and do not forget i already knew how to work the transmission etc. [What you mean when you do your 3 day course they do not tell you about splitters and rangechangers...] I asked the instructor to see what they said and they did not know!!!!!

Just over a year ago when down under I had a go in my BIL's 20 ton tipper truck, not on the road, just around his farm.

Boy that was weird. Some gear changes you used the clutch pedal, some you didn't (That goes against all 35 years of driving) and some you just switched the switch on the gear lever, pressed the clutch down and up without touching the gear stick. Oh and the gear stick had as much tactile feedback as stiring a stick in thick porridge so it was sometimes luck if you got the right gear.

Even Bruce said he sometimes gets confused changing up and down and ends up stopping and starting from the bottom again! 

Also had fun on his digger, useful practice for when I got my own, and on his dozer, and I finally got to drive a Roller, a road roller that is.  There's another weird idea, whoever thought it would be a good idea to invert the controls and have a decelerator pedal? (that was on the dozer)