Advice wanted for apprentice.

[Evans Electric]

I think the trade is in the doldrums as regards to training / apprenticships  etc.    As I said above , or somewhere,  I wrote to the NICEIC to raise some interest there .

I'm just thinking about the guys who use my wholesalers , not many younger sparks there either ....mostly  40s- 50s- 60s .   No one comes in with an apprentice .

Theres a few more younger guys on here I think .  You can tell who the dinosaurs are , they know stuff like ...owning publications called  The Electrician's Mate  by BICC ....or sawing off the end of a conduit coupler to make a circular locknut .........drilling joists with no electric on .... Rawlplug Tools ....  Pyro straighteners  and using tallow for plumbing lead. 

 

[Murdoch]

^^ If I took on an apprentice, the added turn over, would make me have to go VAT registered. Add to this the sick and holiday pay, and later, pensions, its no wonder a lot of us don't want the hassle...............

 

[Blue Duck]

You could have them on a zero hours contract? :lol:

 

[binky]

1 out of 5 apprentices have survived the full term with me. Can't be arsed with them now, it's easier to use a decent subbie with all theor own toold and transport than train up a youngster, plus ot doesn't tie me down. If I want to get out of bed at 6am and head for site, I can. With an apprentice, if I've told him to meet me at 7.30, I can't do that.If I do take on another lad, it would have to be a second year apprentice, and possibly self employed, ie I'll offer work experience rather than a job.

 

[rapparee]

1 out of 5 apprentices have survived the full term with me. Can't be arsed with them now, it's easier to use a decent subbie with all theor own toold and transport than train up a youngster, plus ot doesn't tie me down. If I want to get out of bed at 6am and head for site, I can. With an apprentice, if I've told him to meet me at 7.30, I can't do that.If I do take on another lad, it would have to be a second year apprentice, and possibly self employed, ie I'll offer work experience rather than a job.

In fairness it's horses for courses. You probably aren't a good teacher. Too concentrated on running your business and making money. (Nothing wrong with that). I think an apprentice would do better at a big firm where he is working with an electrician who has time to explain and show the apprentice what he is doing. And after a while maybe get to work with a different spark and maybe learn something. new off him and do a mixture of commercial, domestic and industrial.

 

[binky]

There is an element of truth in what you are saying @rapparee but I am by nature a patient person, and I do believe we need to bring on the young, however:-

1st apprentice, totally trained by me, lasted 8 years before deciding to go self employed

2nd apprentice, keen, diligent, but basically a bit too thick, survived a year

3rd apprentice - mobile phone

4th apprentice, good lad but influenced by a sparky who worked for me. He left after 3 years when I sacked said sparky. Eventually went to larger firm and has done well

5th apprentice - motorcyle accident, continuing problems with his ankle mean't he was unreliable, work 1/2 days, off next in pain. 12 days off since April this year, had to go because I just couldn't run the business with such unreliability. Have offered to take back if he ever gets sorted out.

Now just can't be bothered, I teach better than most. My work is quite varied, so quite a few opportunites to learn new skills, but I'm fed up with nurse-maiding youngsters and have decided not to go down that route again for quite a while / ever again. I would rather offer work experience to an older person - they're more fun to talk to anyway.

 

[Tony S]

Years ago we had government funded organisations like the EITB (engineering industry training board). The government also paid the employer a subsidy to cover apprentice training.

About three years in to my apprenticeship the subsidy stopped. The subsidy would continue to be paid for apprentices still in training, after that the employer got sod all. At that point the employers stopped taking apprentices on.

About five years out of my time our company was using the tactic of “snaffle other companies ex apprentices”. It wasn’t long before they ran out of people to snaffle. In a works committee meeting the works manager came out with the statement “there are no unemployed electricians in the area, only the unemployable”.

The above was thirty plus years back, look at the bloody mess we’re in now………….

 

[phil d]

There is an element of truth in what you are saying @rapparee but I am by nature a patient person, and I do believe we need to bring on the young, however:-

1st apprentice, totally trained by me, lasted 8 years before deciding to go self employed

2nd apprentice, keen, diligent, but basically a bit too thick, survived a year

3rd apprentice - mobile phone

4th apprentice, good lad but influenced by a sparky who worked for me. He left after 3 years when I sacked said sparky. Eventually went to larger firm and has done well

5th apprentice - motorcyle accident, continuing problems with his ankle mean't he was unreliable, work 1/2 days, off next in pain. 12 days off since April this year, had to go because I just couldn't run the business with such unreliability. Have offered to take back if he ever gets sorted out.

Now just can't be bothered, I teach better than most. My work is quite varied, so quite a few opportunites to learn new skills, but I'm fed up with nurse-maiding youngsters and have decided not to go down that route again for quite a while / ever again. I would rather offer work experience to an older person - they're more fun to talk to anyway.

I agree with what you are saying, when I was an apprentice I was taught that the guy who was teaching you was to be listened to and respected, if you got a good teacher you could learn a lot, a decent bloke would not only teach you the job, but also the "tricks" that made the job easier.

Nowadays a lot of them don't want to learn,or want the easy way to do things, I had one lad and he was useless, I asked him to cut a piece of tube with a hacksaw and make sure it was square.Four attempts later and it was still at an odd angle, he knew how to do it but couldn't be arsed, in the end I used a grinder to do it myself. Then he wanted to know why he couldn't have used the grinder, he didn't appreciate the fact that you need to know how to do it the "old fashioned way" before you leap onto the power tools.

We used to "share" apprentices at work, they'd spend a couple of months with one spark, then a couple of months with another, this was supposed to ensure they got a rounded training. Unfortunately that lad had spent too much time with one of the laziest sparks in the firm, did everything the easiest way and didn't show the lad that there's more than one way to do a job.

The guy who taught me used to say, "if your apprentice turns out better than you, then you've trained him properly" .I think if someone has taken time to teach you little special tricks and tips then you should pass them on, likewise if someone is willing to give their time to teach you, then you owe it to them to pay attention and learn.Those of us who've had apprentices will no doubt agree that you can do a job a lot quicker when you are not showing somebody how to do it, so therefore you'd think that the person being shown would at least have the decency to listen and learn what you are trying to teach them, sadly it isn't always the case.

 

[OnOff]

Sad maybe but I've kept everything I made as an EITB apprentice and beyond.







To this day I can do a mean hand job with a selection of files and reckon I can hacksaw to about 20 thou. 

I was talking to some young motor vehicle "apprentices" and they said their college had phased out the practical project (basically build an anything goes car from multiple donor vehicles). They said most of their exams were "online". Beggars belief really.

 

[Evans Electric]

Is it true that Metalwork & Woodwork are no longer taught in schools  ?  

 

[OnOff]

Is it true that Metalwork & Woodwork are no longer taught in schools  ?  

I wouldn't be surprised if it is taught but via a VR headset

Tbh my boy's DT department is mustard (an old technical school that became a grammar). He'll be left using the laser cutter whilst his mate's next door welding! Rare in this day and age I bet.

His LAST A Level exam tomorrow! Part time job down Screweys then hopefully before uni.

 

[Andy™]

I wouldn't be surprised if it is taught but via a VR headset

the other year at elex, some welding manufacturer had a VR demo of a MIG kit. now i can weld mig tig stick & gas, but this 'VR welding', useless. so what hope do those who learn on it have then they are given a real mig torch and a real lump of steel?

 

[OnOff]

the other year at elex, some welding manufacturer had a VR demo of a MIG kit. now i can weld mig tig stick & gas, but this 'VR welding', useless. so what hope do those who learn on it have then they are given a real mig torch and a real lump of steel?

My fabricator had a jolly to their welding suppliers factory, him and a mix of office and factory staff. Lunch laid on etc.

Everyone had a go of the suppliers VR rig. Now these guys are good. Imo their TIG especially is superb. On the VR rig their SECRETARY did the best out of anyone.

Welding mild steel to aluminium.....Now that's what I call a trick.

 

[steptoe]

I have a welder, 2 in fact,

I can weld, a bit, but I definitely wouldn't say I can ACTUALLY weld,

 but, 

I have 4 grinders,

and I'm very efficient with them,

 

[OnOff]

I have a welder, 2 in fact,

I can weld, a bit, but I definitely wouldn't say I can ACTUALLY weld,

 but, 

I have 4 grinders,

and I'm very efficient with them,

Class Ohlson have a 9" grinder on sale at the mo. Under £40 Inc delivery and a 5 year g'tee.

http://m.clasohlson.com/uk/Cocraft-HA-230-S-Angle-Grinder/18-3189

 

[steptoe]

Class Ohlson have a 9" grinder on sale at the mo. Under £40 Inc delivery and a 5 year g'tee.

http://m.clasohlson.com/uk/Cocraft-HA-230-S-Angle-Grinder/18-3189

i dont need another grinder,  :slap

 

[OnOff]

i dont need another grinder,  :slap

Nor me:

x1 - 9"

x3 - 115mm

x1 - 100mm

x1 - 115mm 18V

I go like having a slitting disc on one and flap disc on another for de-burring!

 

[Andy™]

im lazy with grinders, rather than constantly change the disc, i just swap the grinder (only work in the workshop). i have 2 in my van (18v & 230v) and 5 in the workshop

 

[phil d]

I can weld with gas, stick, mig and tig, I have 1 arc set and 1 tig set, I remember the first time I did tig, I went for an interview and the guy asked if I could weld. I told him I'd done gas,stick and mig, and he asked about tig, when I said I'd never done it he took me into the workshop and gave me a demo. When it was my turn I did a weld and it was perfect, I don't know who was more surprised, me or him!

Up at the farm we have a few nice bits of kit, 400A mig, 250A stick set, and a large plasma arc cutter, it's great if I want to do anything on my own stuff, just take it up there and get it in the workshop.

When I was at school we had a cracking metalwork teacher, he'd let you bring things in from home and do "real" jobs, rather than making pointless stuff, I was always making things and one of the lads took a motorbike in and did a load of work on the frame.

The other week there was something on tv about apprentices and it was filmed at BAE, their lads were terrible, the trainees were filing metal down and instead of pushing forward and lifting off on the backstroke they were just dragging the file back and forth across the metal! our metalwork teacher would have had a fit.

 

[OnOff]

im lazy with grinders, rather than constantly change the disc, i just swap the grinder (only work in the workshop). i have 2 in my van (18v & 230v) and 5 in the workshop

+1 tbh I'll often use the cordless for just deburring.

1mm thick and flap discs make things so much easier than when I were a lad, during the war, youngsters today etc, etc.