Advice wanted for apprentice.

[Evans Electric]

I've mentioned the lad who works with us sometimes ...for practical experience... (  10 yrs ago we would have employed him TBH but  my fellow sparks and I are both semi retired , bad knees ,  picking easier jobs ,  two days a week,  old pharts  etc etc)  ......so he,s  had yet another dissapointment with an apprentiship ,   I don't think ANYONE  is doing them these days. 

So I started to think , what if he put that idea  aside and went for a Short Course DI   Course ..The so called Part P course .  

I have no idea how the courses work , I know its mostly slightly older guys who are changing their careers ,   would be apprentice is 18 ,  so perhaps seeking  some advice from any Short Course survivors .....how long actually is the course etc etc ...we hear 5 weeks  .   He,s already attained  some C&Gs .

He wanted to do Industrial / commercial  but it looks bleaker & bleaker ....and as his Dad says ...if he has to get something unskilled to earn a living  , he'll never get back to Sparkying .

 

[Richard-the-Ninth]

I don't want to rain on your parade, but if you look in the apprentices section, there are lots of apprentices asking for jobs.............none get an offer.

I wish your apprentice good luck, but alas I am not able to offer much else.

 

[Evans Electric]

Blymey  Richard 1X  I've never noticed the Apprentices section  before .   Thanks anyway. 

 

[misssweden]

There is a crazy demand for jointers and jointers mates. Just sayin'...  :innocent

 

[Evans Electric]

Yes the lad who helps us had an interview with Western Power a while back .

I think he said about 100 there  . 

Three choices are:-

Jointing in hole in ground .

Cabling & jointing up poles.

Switchgear fitting .

He wanted Switchgear fitting but had to do the climbing up the pole thing with everyone else , not used to heights so didn't get anywhere.

 

[Adam W]

With the experience he's gained working with you and with a technical certificate or at least evidence showing he's working towards one, he could get agency work as a mate, then he'd be earning while he's gaining experience of commercial and industrial installations while at the same time networking with potential employers.

Given his age and willingness to learn most of the older sparks he'll meet on site will be willing to share their experience with him.

Even if it doesn't get him a permanent job it could get him enough experience to get a maintenance job where he could do his NVQ.

 

[Evans Electric]

This NVQ3 thing is the big stumbling block ,  I never heard of Short Coursers doing it  TBH.    There would never be time .

 

[steptoe]

This NVQ3 thing is the big stumbling block ,  I never heard of Short Coursers doing it  TBH.    There would never be time .

a firm I worked for a few years back had an apprentice, mainly on new build housing,

every Friday afternoon he would go to a different site and take pictures of the work as his own,

and we'd help him fill in his book stuff of what he'd done,

it was the only way he could get enough variety of work to pass.

 

[Evans Electric]

It seems like a right palarver !    How does one spell palarver  ?  Never wrote that down before.

 

[Sharpend]

As Adam says, his best option maybe via agencies, it's not uncommon if you're good and willing that one of the firms he works for via agency wouldn't cut him a deal. May be his quickest way in to trade. 

 

[Blue Duck]

This NVQ3 thing is the big stumbling block ,  I never heard of Short Coursers doing it  TBH.    There would never be time .

There is a quick ish route but you needs to get the work for the portfolio.

Or just go about looking for new installs and get yer mate to take a photo?

It looks like they are trying to distance themselves from short courses creating a two tier system.

They can't turn their back on the gravy though.

 

[binky]

There is a crazy demand for jointers and jointers mates. Just sayin'...  :innocent

does it pay well?

 

[Adam W]

I've not done one myself but a Domestic Installer short course could end up doing the lad more harm than good:

As the name suggests it's purely for domestic installing - fitting the pre-determined circuits out of the OSG without thinking about why they are installed like that.  It doesn't offer any scope for commercial or industrial work, or teach course attendees how to design circuits.

The 'Part P' element is the City & Guilds 2393 which is intended for people who may come across electricity in their job, such as plumbers, kitchen fitters or handymen and was never intended to be for electricians who install circuits as their primary trade.  The recognised technical certificate which by the sound of it he's doing at college anyway will cover anything in the 2393.

These short courses tend to include the 2393, the 2382 (17th edition regs course on reading the book), 2392 (introduction to Inspection & Testing, which is also covered by the technical certificate), and for some reason a qualification in In Service Inspection & Testing of Electrical Equipment (formerly known as PAT testing), plus maybe some kind of introduction to electrics.

They're a collection of short courses which were intended as add-ons to the main qualification; on their own they're like buying a bodykit for a car you don't own.

The courses aren't designed to make anyone an electrician in a matter of weeks - they're just sold as such because some people see any trade involving a 3 year course as something you do if you messed about at school, which can be condensed into a few weeks if you've got something between your ears, and will pay money for a "lucrative new career".  The training centres are happy to take people's money off them even if it involves turning a blind eye to customers' expectations.   The attitude of the owner of one of the larger training centres offering these courses is "yeah well who's going to stop me?"

On certain other trade forums around the internet "part P qualified" is used as a euphemism for poor workmanship which displays a lack of understanding.

IMO he's best off sticking with the course he's on, doing 17th edition if it's stopping him getting work, then 2394/2395 although there's no rush for that.

 

[Evans Electric]

Thanks Adam..most informative.

I've asked the NICEIC if they would consider looking at the apprenticeship  ( Lack of opportunities)  problem ,  they're having a look at it .

I'm thinking in terms of keen lads on a contract for Sparky Firm A  then if they're short of work  he could do a few months for Sparky Firm B  etc.

As it stands ..no one is working for anyone.

 

[Tony S]

The company I served my apprenticeship with built a new plant which would need its own shift maintenance team. It was a bit of a wake up call, not one of the team was under 50 years old and they were looking towards early retirement at 58.

They finally realised they needed apprentices, 18 of various trades were taken on in the first year.
 

 

[Evans Electric]

Yep   doesn't surprise me Tony.

 

[Tony S]

The foundry electrical department was the same, one youngster under 40 and he cleared off to become a missionary in Africa.

Manufacturing industries in this country are going to find a time where there are no industrial electricians. That depends on if there are any manufacturers left.

It’s one thing churning out DI’s by the dozen, they’re no use in a factory.

 

[binky]

most factories tend to have some items of unique equipment which can only be taught on the job. I also understand there is a shortage of PLC programmers these days?

 

[Phoenix]

most factories tend to have some items of unique equipment which can only be taught on the job. I also understand there is a shortage of PLC programmers these days?

I think thats one of the issues, some* in the commericial/industrial contracting sectors would be suitable for factory maintenance, but would take a bit of time getting upto speed with a lot of things that we don't otherwise come across but thats unproductive time shadowing the chap who has been there years, and they wouldn't want to pay for that....

* Obvously not all... I would have thought anyone who is able to adopt a logical approach to fault finding would be suitable, those who have "C" cert, etc, etc

 

[phil d]

Young Craig, my mates son wanted to be a spark, like your lad he couldn't get a placement anywhere,in the end he ended up helping me with whatever I was doing( I wasn't working full time due to health issues) anyway in the final year at college he got picked up by a firm who wanted an apprentice, but wanted somebody who was a bit more clued up than your average school leaver.

He did well with them and ended up making loads of money, I think these days it's hard to get anywhere proper, and it's really sad when a youngster who want's to learn can't get on.

All you can do is teach them the tricks and tips that you learned and hope it helps them get somewhere, it made me and Craig laugh when one of the instructors at college told him he was doing better with me than a lot of the other lads who had full time placements! That speaks volumes about the way a lot of the youngsters are taught these days.