Allowed time for commercial eicr

[Tony Soprano]

Currently doing eicrs is offices and workshops. Massive place. I’m quite conscientious and do a thorough inspection. I’m being asked to do 30 to 40 circuits per day. Plus do the full write up on the tablet including logging the observations and coding them etc. they are even asking for a reference number to the regs for each observation. Quite time consuming to do all this. This DBS on site are not marked up very well so it is taking some time to find all the circuits. I’m doing 25 circuits per day roughly. But taking into account things aren’t labelled, high level access issues and walking back and fourth due to the size of the place, plus the write up, I think I’m doing well. But I just wanted to know if this sounds about right or if I should be doing more. I’ve done eicrs in the past. But always pen and paper and it is faster because I would just give the office my results, characteristics, observations and they would write it all up. I’m subbying to them. Got lots of experience. And my experience tells me I’m doing enough. But always good to hear other opinions.

 

[Murdoch]

30 to 40 circuits per day ................ won't be worth the paper its printed on

 

[Sharpend]

You’re working for the wrong people.

 

[Tony Soprano]

I know but it’s constant work lol

 

[Tony Soprano]

You’re working for the wrong people.

To be honest 25 is a push but if the circuits are easy to find it’s easier to achieve. 20 is probably more realistic

 

[Murdoch]

20 per day so a circuit every 24 minutes

Hum

 

[UNG]

Why is it EICR work on large sites seems to come down to how many circuits you can test per day or how many the management think you need to be testing to make their profit, and then there is more to an installation than just the circuits what about all the other checks and tests needed for a complete and accurate EICR

At some point the reality of rushed incomplete and inaccurate EICR's will catch up with someone when a serious injury or fatality occurrs after all the signed EICR will be the main piece evidence for the prosecution

 

[Sharpend]

Why is it EICR work on large sites seems to come down to how many circuits you can test per day or how many the management think you need to be testing to make their profit, and then there is more to an installation than just the circuits what about all the other checks and tests needed for a complete and accurate EICR

At some point the reality of rushed incomplete and inaccurate EICR's will catch up with someone when a serious injury or fatality occurrs after all the signed EICR will be the main piece evidence for the prosecution

I’m waiting for the day, but I dare to say that it will all covered up to a lesser offence and to compensate a new scam will be devised to ensure compliance! Which we shall have to pay for?

 

[Andy™]

about the only way you'd get that number of circuits is if you've already tested the building previously and know its history

 

[Tony Soprano]

about the only way you'd get that number of circuits is if you've already tested the building previously and know

Why is it EICR work on large sites seems to come down to how many circuits you can test per day or how many the management think you need to be testing to make their profit, and then there is more to an installation than just the circuits what about all the other checks and tests needed for a complete and accurate EICR

At some point the reality of rushed incomplete and inaccurate EICR's will catch up with someone when a serious injury or fatality occurrs after all the signed EICR will be the main piece evidence for the prosecution

I agree. Im all about doing it spot on. Not doing it faster. So as you can imagine it goes down like a lead balloon sometimes because they don’t price for you to be there long enough to do it properly

 

[binky]

Not your problem, if they want to make money, they need to quote the job correctly. Stick to your guns, or get work elsewhere.

 

[Pops]

But it is your problem. You’re the one carrying out and signing the eicr therefore you’re the one who’s going to get sued. I’d suggest that you carry out only those you can accurately complete in the time you’ve got and if they don’t like it find another job.

 

[binky]

But it is your problem. You’re the one carrying out and signing the eicr therefore you’re the one who’s going to get sued. I’d suggest that you carry out only those you can accurately complete in the time you’ve got and if they don’t like it find another job.

I was referring to the financial aspect rather than the legal

 

[Tony Soprano]

about the only way you'd get that number of circuits is if you've already tested the building previously and know its

But it is your problem. You’re the one carrying out and signing the eicr therefore you’re the one who’s going to get sued. I’d suggest that you carry out only those you can accurately complete in the time you’ve got and if they don’t like it find another job.

That’s what I am doing. I’m not racing round like a nutter and rushing it. I have been doing that to a degree but after realising it’s not the way to go, I’ve took a step back now and assessed how to move forward.

 

[mort2376]

I take 2/3rds of a day to do a domestic eicr. And charge £180 minimum. They get a report with very few limitations and any other electrician could quote from it for any repairs.

Some don't like the price and that's fine. Get your £40 drive by report done.

If I have to stand up in court in front of the judge I know my report was detailed and to iee guidelines.

 

[UNG]

First we had PAT companies pushing for 1000+ appliances tested per day and now we find EICR's being pushed at 30 - 40 circuits per day, you have to wonder what the person ordering this work / placing the contract is expecting it certainly begs a number questions as to how safe is safe while having the certs fulfills the legal safety requirements if the information on them or pertinent points are missed they are worthless

So in this age of blame and claim I find it hard to believe that those who are responsible for placing contracts for EICR work do so in apparent ignorance and are not carrying out sufficient due diligence when discharging their duty of care that the inspection and testing process is fit for purpose and produces a valid outcome although the same people are generally forced to accept the cheapest quote regardless by the bean counters

Throw into the mix the schemes who give credibility to something they do not carry out any checks or verification of during their annual inspections and ultimately through advertising mislead customers into believing they are purchasing a product that has been assessed by them and the approved contractor despite in some circumstances having limited or minimal electrical qualifications and little or no experience

At some point with the number of poor EICR's that are being carried out it is likely that an incident or two will end up in court and it will be interesting to see how many defendants are in the dock. I would recommend anyone working for a company and being pressurised into testing more circuits than is reasonably practical to get any instructions in writing as I can guarantee when something happens you will be on your own as the management won't back you and will deny everything

 

[Sharpend]

^^^ Now that’s the truth right there folks!

 

[Tony Soprano]

First we had PAT companies pushing for 1000+ appliances tested per day and now we find EICR's being pushed at 30 - 40 circuits per day, you have to wonder what the person ordering this work / placing the contract is expecting it certainly begs a number questions as to how safe is safe while having the certs fulfills the legal safety requirements if the information on them or pertinent points are missed they are worthless

So in this age of blame and claim I find it hard to believe that those who are responsible for placing contracts for EICR work do so in apparent ignorance and are not carrying out sufficient due diligence when discharging their duty of care that the inspection and testing process is fit for purpose and produces a valid outcome although the same people are generally forced to accept the cheapest quote regardless by the bean counters

Throw into the mix the schemes who give credibility to something they do not carry out any checks or verification of during their annual inspections and ultimately through advertising mislead customers into believing they are purchasing a product that has been assessed by them and the approved contractor despite in some circumstances having limited or minimal electrical qualifications and little or no experience

At some point with the number of poor EICR's that are being carried out it is likely that an incident or two will end up in court and it will be interesting to see how many defendants are in the dock. I would recommend anyone working for a company and being pressurised into testing more circuits than is reasonably practical to get any instructions in writing as I can guarantee when something happens you will be on your own as the management won't back you and will deny everything

I totally agree. An EICR is meant to ensure the electrical installation is safe to remain in operation. It’s not possible to determine this by racing around trying to do 30 circuits per day. Even if you do 12 hour days you would be pushing it. They do not take into account the observation side of the report. To me this is the most important part and it needs time allocated to it to make sure nothing is missed. A rushed electrician is a stressed electrician. And this results in things being missed and mistakes made.

 

[Tony Soprano]

Why is it EICR work on large sites seems to come down to how many circuits you can test per day or how many the management think you need to be testing to make their profit, and then there is more to an installation than just the circuits what about all the other checks and tests needed for a complete and accurate EICR

At some point the reality of rushed incomplete and inaccurate EICR's will catch up with someone when a serious injury or fatality occurrs after all the signed EICR will be the main piece evidence for the prosecution

Do you have any suggestions as to how I fight my case with these idiots I work for? Like you say all they care about is the numbers of circuits. Not doing an accurate report

 

[UNG]

Do you have any suggestions as to how I fight my case with these idiots I work for? Like you say all they care about is the numbers of circuits. Not doing an accurate report

The problem you have is trying to make the irresponsible managers you are working under aware of their responsibilities to the client when the client has deferred their duty of care to them
Unfortunately you as the guy on site carying out the I & T and signing the certificate are first in the line of fire should an incident involving the installation you have tested occurs, after that we move onto who is checking and / or authorising the certificate and do they fully understand their responsibilities and potential liabilities

The problem you are hoping to resolve is not just limited to the company you are working for and is really an industry wide issue where the quality of I & T widely varies and ultimately comes down to cost and a lack of understanding on the clients part of what they are actually purchasing with the possession of a satisfactory certificate being sufficient to satisfy H & S requirements they are not bothered that the quantity of circuits tested within X hours, days or weeks is actually achieveable to a reasonable to high standard

Personally I think you have little or no chance of changing (as you call them) the idiots attitude to responsible and ethical I & T and it would probably be a lot easier and less hassle to seek employment elsewhere rather than banging your head against the wall.