Sorry sidewinder I didn't mean to offend you and certainly not pick on you, I must remind you though the debate is over enclosures for BS7671 (that's electrical) I don't really mind if your degree is in botany, the point is is that the IEE look like that they are going to insist on metal and not plastic.
Amendment 3
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Sharpend
"It Just Is"
Are you suggesting Matt that all IP rated enclosures are also to be metal? External sockets? Well it would mean that the new WAGO enclosure(the jam jar) will be short lived.
Still wouldn't expect a manufacturer to know anything?????
Still wouldn't expect a manufacturer to know anything?????
Well a bit puzzled here but thats nothing new TBH .... on the other hand little suprises me these days .
So after googling I see that the IEE have issued the Third Amendment which states ....." No soldiers shall be ,in time of peace, be quartered in any house , without the consent of the owner nor in time of war but will be in a manner prescribed by law "
Apparently one of those empty pages in the 17th edition was to read " Electricians shall retain the right to bear and carry arms "
Just being silly .
So after googling I see that the IEE have issued the Third Amendment which states ....." No soldiers shall be ,in time of peace, be quartered in any house , without the consent of the owner nor in time of war but will be in a manner prescribed by law "
Apparently one of those empty pages in the 17th edition was to read " Electricians shall retain the right to bear and carry arms "
Just being silly .
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Sharpend
"It Just Is"
Now deke, I know you altered the garage to get the van in, but has the door fell on your head or something????
Your brain and typing finger are not harmonised!
Your brain and typing finger are not harmonised!
You mean its not really 1776 and we're not trying to rid our country of the British ? :C
NO TAXATION WITHOUT REPRESENTATION !!!!!
NO TAXATION WITHOUT REPRESENTATION !!!!!
OK
I'll give you the short answer,
seeing as you asked a question,
NO , they have not been banned
NO , we are not going back to metal, still only to be m/c as required by the circumstances,
notice how I didnt state BS7671 as the regs dont actually require anything.
Metal cable supports & non routing of cables through walkways has been pushed by all fire authorities for awhile now, two recent cases that have further pushed this are the deaths of 2 firefighters at Shirley towers in Southampton & the four Warwickshire lads in a warehouse blaze.It's not out yet... not sure how your gonna get round not having plastic enclosures? I did read something about plastic cu ' s and pvc trunking having metal cable supportsIt's all rumors though.
I've always thought this....
The common factor in both these cases were cable entanglement that either trapped the lads who lost their lives or entangled those going in to locate them once a BA emergency had been declared.
As a result all crews now carry VDE cutters when in BA sets & cutting away is now part of their regular training.
As for the cu's I very much doubt it will be a return to all metal cu's, as there are plastics out there that are designed not to burn or melt.
It's not in botany.
I am fully aware of what the debate is about.
I VERY much doubt that the IEE will demand metallic enclosures undef BS7671.
Remember we are moving closer to the standards in the rest of Europe, like it or not, thus, I very much doubt that such a move away from 60364 would go ahead.
Yes they may well require non flammable materials, however, I suspect that the product standards already require this.
It seems that you are manufacturing products for sale.
Which product standards are you working to, and, what do your copies of these standards say about the flammability of the enclosures used?
Doc Hudson
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Short answer no we are not going back to good old fashioned metal.
The IEE? My current copy describes BS7671 as now being overseen by the IET. It says this on the front cover and the inside page of current 17th edition. That is of course not withstanding the fact the BS7671 is non statutory, so any insisting by IEE or IET would be more like recommending. Some people still get confused thinking that BS7671 is law.
Doc H.
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I thought all CU's were supposed to be non flammable already?
So is this just enforcing something that should already be in place?
So is this just enforcing something that should already be in place?
No, they just have to be non propagating..
I.e. they can go on fire, but they mustn't be able to stay alight once the source has been removed
Reading the Draft for Public Comment, 421.1.200 is a sub-section of 421.1.5 and as such, seems to apply only to "electrical equipment in a single location containing flammable liquid in significant quantity".
Even if not, the requirement is for Switchgear assemblies including consumer units to be manufactured from non-combustible or NOT READILY COMBUSTIBLE material. This is further defined as meeting a 960 C glow-wire flammability test as defined in BSEN 60695-2-11.
I am certain that enclosure manufacturers would have selected plastics that comply, certainly the IP65 Enclosures I import from China do. Its material is described as "High Intensity ABS / PC plastic, with refractory additives for fireproofing and self-extinguishing characteristics, as well as additive to produce good UV stability".
As you sit at your computer, the chances are its case is manufactured from a similar plastic compound.
Reg 421.1.6 seems to give an opt-out clause, stating that if no product standard exists, then the enclosure shall withstand the highest temperature likely to be produced by the electrical equipment IN NORMAL USE.
To me, this a far cry from banning all plastic boxes.
SBS Dave
Even if not, the requirement is for Switchgear assemblies including consumer units to be manufactured from non-combustible or NOT READILY COMBUSTIBLE material. This is further defined as meeting a 960 C glow-wire flammability test as defined in BSEN 60695-2-11.
I am certain that enclosure manufacturers would have selected plastics that comply, certainly the IP65 Enclosures I import from China do. Its material is described as "High Intensity ABS / PC plastic, with refractory additives for fireproofing and self-extinguishing characteristics, as well as additive to produce good UV stability".
As you sit at your computer, the chances are its case is manufactured from a similar plastic compound.
Reg 421.1.6 seems to give an opt-out clause, stating that if no product standard exists, then the enclosure shall withstand the highest temperature likely to be produced by the electrical equipment IN NORMAL USE.
To me, this a far cry from banning all plastic boxes.
SBS Dave
Must concur with the Forum et al Matt - you`re on a different air to everyone else!
It is simply not practicable - if you`re going to quote from something, and argue it is right - then may I suggest you read the entirety, to get the contextual nuances?
Thank you
It is simply not practicable - if you`re going to quote from something, and argue it is right - then may I suggest you read the entirety, to get the contextual nuances?
Thank you
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I had a feeling that one of my suppliers who knew what they were talking about ( as it affects their business) would be along shortly to clarify matters
Heres a thought, now here is a thought.....
LSOH FP200 type cables, adequately supported/clipped with fire resistant fixings BUT in plastic mini trunking or conduit that is made of STANDARD UPVC.........."..shhhhhuuuuuurlwy shome contradicshon ". said Mr Bond
Just wandering aimlessly through an industry beset with obstacles, policed/guarded by shiny arshed twonks who cannot make up their minds so that they can all agree on the same thing. They then charge US for the privilege of NEEDING to know what THEY have changed their mind to
Jono Pashley
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We were told that if plastic trunking were used you had to install further fixings inside that so if the trunking melted the cables wouldn't all come crashing down. http://www.d-line.co.uk/fire-and-security-installations like that...
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That is what i said..........adequately fixed and supported with fire resistant fixings etcetcetc!
My point is. THE TRUNKING IS PLASTIC, CABLES ARE SUPPORTED AND WILL NOT FALL DOWN AND THROTTLE TRUMPTON, BUT THE TRUNKING IS PLASTIC. Plastic burns and gives off toxic fumes? Or am i micturating vertically against an incorrect species within the arboretum?............cursed swear filters
Jono Pashley
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Ah..i think i see what your getting at the cables designed not to give off as many toxic fumes but the trunking still would unless its also of a low carp variety...no issue to fireman sam in his breathing apparatus but to someone trapped maybe..although in the modern home/office there is so much plastic would it really matter in the grand scheme of things..unless im wrong which according the the missus i usual am!
