Another Kitchen Electrics Thread...

[Doomageta]

Hi All,

Been on here before and got some good feedback. Actually had some guys on here (from FIFE...no part P up here) come to see the place as well but, it was too much money for poor little me.

...Anyway...The situation is that i had to do some plastering for a while and i am now back to the electrics:

Currently rewiring entire house. Ran cables everywhere and installed new sockets on 2 mains rings to cover lounge and bedrooms (bungalow). Have a radial for electric shower on 10mm.

Now moving into the kitchen which is small 2.5mx2.5m hence has limited space for adding sockets, spurs, switched fcu and DPCCU. It is also currently empty and will need plasterboard put up once this is done.

The CU will also get changed so at the moment all the starts/ends of circuits are disconnected and waiting in the subfloor space beneath the current fusebox.

1) I am putting a radial for the cooker on a 6mm run from CU to a 45A DPCCU (it is a crabtree cooker control unit) which will in turn get connected via the feed/cooker side to the electric oven once i buy one. The switch also has a socket for plugs. Can i spur a switched fcu 3/5Amps for the ignition of a gas hob (once i buy one), from the incoming/mains side of the DPCCU to be able to isolate the gas ignition? If yes does the cable need to be 6mm between the two? And then whatever flex the gas hob ignition comes with (hopefully a heat resistant flex) from the sfcu to the hob?

2) I think it is disallowed in some cases and bad practise in general (i think it depends on whether it is with fcu or unfused cu) to spur more than once per socket/outlet on a ring circuit but, since this is a radial circuit, i am wondering if the kitchen hood could also in turn be connected to the mains side of the ignition sfcu via another dedicated sfcu? This is not actually part of my current design but i was just wondering. Would 6mm cable still need to be used between the mains side of the gas ignition sfcu and the mains side of the kitchen hood sfcu?

3) Now for the rest of the kitchen i am planning to run a new ring (KR) on 2.5mm cable from the CU. It will depend slightly on the reply from the first scenario...

First question is can you have a sfcu part of the KR or does it have to be spurred from a socket outlet? If yes then here is the plan, otherwise things will need some alteration of course.

So, KR starts at CU onto a sfcu 3/5 amps which will be connected to the kitchen hood on its feed/out side.

KR then continues from sfcu onto a regular double gang.

KR the continues from double gang (...here is the tricky part) onto another DPCCU socket. I would like to use that setup, so that i can connect the feed/out side of the 45A DPCCU to a single socket for a washing machine below worktop level and have a third socket above worktop level for plugging in an appliance other than the kettle and toaster which, have their reserved/permanent space on the adjacent double socket (it just does not feel right to unplug them). About the connection between the 45A DPCCU and the single socket will i need to introduce another device or fuse? I am not sure since 45A is the max rating of the socket and the circuit will be 32A but, i wanted to double check since i could be wrong. Do i need like a 13A unswitched fcu in between?

KR then continues from mains side of DPCCU to the opposite wall in the kitchen onto a double socket and another double socket and then a single socket for the fridge and finally back to the CU.

4) Lastly anybody cares to pm or email me a quote for connecting a new CU to the whole system? I will get another one from the guys who came around earlier since i have done more stuff since they were last here but, if you are around Dundee please give me an email. doomageta at hotmail.com.

Also they advised going for RCBOs everywhere which i think is a good idea since it means my server room won't trip if a faulty light on another circuit on the same RCD triggers the RCD and kills all the other circuits behind it. Any opinions??? i know this question is asking for trouble but, i just had to.

Thanks for still breathing after reading all this. Have a nice weekend and looking forward to hearing feedback.

Thanks.

Dooma

 

[ParkySparky]

Good luck with that lot! Very basic questions, I'm not that convinced you now what your doing! You wired all the lighting yourself aswell?

My personal opinion is that no one I know would fit your CU after you had wired it! What you doing about testing?

 

[Andy™]

From your apparant lack of knowledge of 7671, then you are in way too deep. some of the questions you are asking is very bacis stuff. so if you dont know that, what else dont you know

and good luck getting someone to fit the CU. no decent sparky would do that

you would be best getting a sparky in, and offering to do some of the work (like chasing etc)

 

[paul b b]

Mate...i started changing a cu, then realised the guy had rewired himself, nightmare!!! Never again.

To be honest, if your not competent to change a cu then your not competent to connect cooker, shower etc....

 

[Doomageta]

Well i am asking for advice on the DIY section because i am not sure 100% but, i don't think asking simple questions is a problem (obviously you disagree). I am looking to understand so telling me i don't have a clue would be nice if some answers were sent my way too. Testing would also be performed when the CU is installed (if i can find an electrician mad enough to do it) and no, i didn't alter the lighting circuits.

I am basically trying to finish the chasing for the kitchen and hence i need to make sure i have everything i need in place before drylining the wall which will be a dot and dab job and i do not want any surface mounted switches if i can avoid it.

The electricians who gave me a quote seems to think that the work i had done was good so, i suppose i am not 100% clueless either. Then again i didn't need as much planning as for the kitchen since they only looked at the 2 mains rings i ran the cables for. 2.5mm cable, no spurs, start from CU to a socket, go around the rest of them and finish back at the CU. Was that ok? obviously need to be aware of safe zones etc. although most of it happens under the floor anyway.

Anyway, i am still looking for any relevant information related to my questions if anyone is willing to enlighten me.

Thanks.

 

[Andy™]

and what happens when it comes to someone doing the testing, and its discovered that you have wired it wrong and need re-done?

 

[steptoe]

right , first up,

its in the DIY section,

its in Scotland so no PP and as for building warrants, I dont care if you break the law or not,

personally, I think you are maybe in over your head a bit, but if you are going to do it, then we may as well try and make sure you dont kill the next person to visit you,

all these spurs from the cooker switch, I got confused just reading them, use the cooker switch for the cooker, use a switched/fused/spur on the KR for the gas ignitor, same for the extractor hood,

yes, you can have the SFS directly on the ring, that is actually the preferred place, avoid spurs if you can,

why use a cooker switch for the washing machine? just use a SFS, and put another d/skt beside it, or a single if space is tight, using a ckr sw isnt good as there will be no fuse for the washing machine unless you pull the machine out.

 

[Doomageta]

Hi Rod,

Thanks for the reply. it is very helpful. By the way i did contact the council about the work and they ensured me that i did not need a warrant as, it was works to an existing building.

You are confirming my preferred way of doing this i.e. cooker on its own and all the rest on the KR. The reason why i wanted a second cooker switch with a socket (for the washing machine) rather than a sfcu and a single socket beside is tight space (indeed very tight) and aesthetics.

I did buy one of these knock-out boxes that combine two singles (e.g. 1 socket+1 sfcu) but, i don't think it looks as good as a cooker switch. I thought that having a 13A unswitched fcu between the cooker switch feed and the single socket for the washing machine would be enough (since i would still be able to cut the supply to the washing machine before pulling it out to access the fuse) but, if you advise otherwise then i will follow that.

Thanks again.

 

[ProDave]

you only need a building warrant for a rewire if it's a 3 or more storey house, or a flat.

Everything rodders says is correct.

Personally I'm not a great fan of putting an FCU directly on the ring. I find three 2.5 t&e's in the back box can get a little cramped and takes some work to get it neat and safe. So if I can, I will take a spur from a nearby 13A socket to feed the FCU, thus only needint to accommodate two t&e's in the single back box, and it's a lot easier to accommodate three t&e's in the double socket back box.

 

[steptoe]

you only need a building warrant for a rewire if it's a 3 or more storey house, or a flat.

Everything rodders says is correct.

Personally I'm not a great fan of putting an FCU directly on the ring. I find three 2.5 t&e's in the back box can get a little cramped and takes some work to get it neat and safe. So if I can, I will take a spur from a nearby 13A socket to feed the FCU, thus only needint to accommodate two t&e's in the single back box, and it's a lot easier to accommodate three t&e's in the double socket back box.

I'd agree there Dave, I try and use 35mm if I can, and will often run the spur in 1.5 just for that extra little bit of room.

 

[ProDave]

+1 About the only useful thing to do with 1.5

 

[steptoe]

+1 About the only useful thing to do with 1.5

and lighting circuits,

I really cant be doing with 1mm TBH, almost useless anyway if there is any amount of insulation at all in the place.