Are these part of any regulations

[Yorwal]

Hi

We have had major work done on the bungalow (sued the surveyor) by a builder who contracted out the electrical work. In the tender which was done by a structural engineering company. The electrics should have been brought up to standard.

Should have the downlights in the bathrooms been changed for the ones to stop moisture going into the loft can be seen when cold from the loft?

Should the downlights should have been changed in the lounge for fire rated downlights currently we have moveable downlights with gaps round the 50w spotlight can feel heat coming into the loft and drafts when windy into lounge?

We only have 1 smoke alarm between our bedroom door and the front door smoke alarm is approx. 22 feet away from the kitchen. Is this up to standard?

What warning signs should be on the consumer unit, which is a new rcbo CU? nothing on the consumer unit. He as added new cable to electrical circuits. Should he have given the test certificate to the builder?

Which the builder says he has, while we are in dispute over things. Now holding us to ransom.

Please can somebody help if these are part of any regulations

 

[Blue Duck]

Hi there,

The bathroom downlights should be IP (ingress protection) rated to prevent moisture from getting in them, but as for above them it sounds like they aren't fitted properly!

Sounds like the same for the lounge lights which is a contravention to the regs in regards to fire barriers even if the downlights are fire rated.

Not too sure about the distance of fire alarms but there should be probably more than 1? are they wired into lighting circuit?

As for warning signs on the cu, It depends on If you have had a rewire or additions? So if you have old & new wire colours(red/black-brown/blue) there should be a warning notice on the cu.

You should have been given a copy of the electrical installation certifiicate if there ever was one...

more info on regs here:http://www.planningportal.gov.uk/

Am a little fuzzy this morning so I hope what I have written makes sense & helps!

:coffee

 

[batty]

I would not want to get involved with a dispute like this as I do not know what was agreed with amount of work being done and its sounds like this is going to go legal. But welcome to the forum.

 

[PC Electrics]

First you need to understand a general principle of the regulations. Any new work must meet BS7671:2008, which is the latest version of the wiring regs (aka 17th edition). If an installation is older than this and was installed to a previous version, (16th, 15th, 14th, 13th editions take us back to the early 60's), then there is no requirement to update that installation to the latest regulations. It is purely a matter of choice on the part of the client. (New work would include main earthing and bonding to an existing installation if required)

Hi We have had major work done on the bungalow (sued the surveyor) by a builder who contracted out the electrical work. In the tender which was done by a structural engineering company. The electrics should have been brought up to standard. What do you mean by this? Your installation would have been up to standard at the time of installation. See above. Did you specifically request that the installation be updated to 17th edition in your contract?

Should have the downlights in the bathrooms been changed for the ones to stop moisture going into the loft can be seen when cold from the loft? No, again see above. Also, if the downlights are outside the zones then the regulations do not stipulate any minimum IP rating. Within the zones IP44 is required. Have a look here:

http://www.allupandon.co.uk/lighting/information/bathroomzones

There is no regulation that requires it (except for new build), but it is considered good practice to box in downlights in lofts to prevent the transfer of vapour and cold air.

Should the downlights should have been changed in the lounge for fire rated downlights currently we have moveable downlights with gaps round the 50w spotlight can feel heat coming into the loft and drafts when windy into lounge? No, fire rated not required within a single dwelling. See above for drafts issue.

We only have 1 smoke alarm between our bedroom door and the front door smoke alarm is approx. 22 feet away from the kitchen. Is this up to standard?

If the kitchen and lounge have separate doors off the hallway or the kitchen is separated from th elounge by a door, then a single smoke meets the requirements of BS5839:6 by being a category LD3. It should be within 3m of any bedroom door.

What warning signs should be on the consumer unit, which is a new rcbo CU? Are you saying that a new CU was fitted as part of the works? Or was it already there? If the former, then Periodic Inspection and RCD Test notices should be present. nothing on the consumer unit. He as added new cable to electrical circuits. Then there should be a mixed colour warning notice. Should he have given the test certificate to the builder? Yes, which cert depends on what work was carried out Which the builder says he has, while we are in dispute over things. Now holding us to ransom.

Please can somebody help if these are part of any regulations

 

[wozz]

as batty says. we need a bit more information about how this situation came about. 'bought up to standard' is a bit of a broad term in this case.

 

[ianmacd]

Do not forget compliance with other building regulations. Recessed downlighters may need to meet part L for air leakage as well as being in the correct zones if in a bathroom etc..

The lounge ones may be fire rated. Just because they get hot above does not mean they do not comply with Part B (fire safety) as they may contain a special substance that expands and fills the void when on fire. They may not need to be fire rated anyway depending on other factors.

As for withholding the test certificates , I think you will find that is unlawful if it was the sparks doing it. From what you said its the builder who is withholding them not the sparks as he has given them to the person ordering the work (i.e. builder).

As mentioned above by others, I feel this will turn nasty and you should seek legal advice. Have LABC been out to inspect at completion? If you decide to take legal action against the builder then you may want to get a full survey done including a PIR on the electrics.

Please do not take any advise given by this forum as in any way a reference for a legal case, that is what a survey/PIR would be for.

 

[SPECIAL LOCATION]

Do not forget compliance with other building regulations. Recessed downlighters may need to meet part L for air leakage as well as being in the correct zones if in a bathroom etc..

I think the Part L would only be appropriate on a "New Build" an existing refururb it would come under the category of would be nice to have but not legal enforceable?

Much the same as the Part 'M' heights accessible switches etc..

:coffee

 

[SPECIAL LOCATION]

Hi We have had major work done on the bungalow (sued the surveyor) by a builder who contracted out the electrical work. In the tender which was done by a structural engineering company. The electrics should have been brought up to standard.

Should have the downlights in the bathrooms been changed for the ones to stop moisture going into the loft can be seen when cold from the loft?

Should the downlights should have been changed in the lounge for fire rated downlights currently we have moveable downlights with gaps round the 50w spotlight can feel heat coming into the loft and drafts when windy into lounge?

We only have 1 smoke alarm between our bedroom door and the front door smoke alarm is approx. 22 feet away from the kitchen. Is this up to standard?

What warning signs should be on the consumer unit, which is a new rcbo CU? nothing on the consumer unit. He as added new cable to electrical circuits. Should he have given the test certificate to the builder?

Which the builder says he has, while we are in dispute over things. Now holding us to ransom.

Please can somebody help if these are part of any regulations

Hello Yorwal, welcome to the forum...

I am in much agreement with my esteemed forumbulaor colleague's above...

The only points I would add are following facts which would would need to take into consideration, as follows:

1/

Wiring regulations are NOT a statutory regulation..

See wiring regulation 114.1 Page 13 of BS7671. they are just guidance for good practice.

2/

If some part of the electrical work was within the scope of Part P building regulations then this is a Statutory legal obligation to comply with.

e.g. Adding a new circuit, replacing a fuse box, work in Gardens, Kitchens or Bathrooms.

3/

Existing fixtures and fittings do NOT have to be brought up to current standards..

but any new work, (additions or alterations should comply with current standards.)

4/

There is NO legal requirement to have to put a smoke detector in any existing property...

(1000's of homes around the country would be illegal at the moment if it was). A new build property should have a basic minimum smoke detection system fitted. Or on a refurbishment it is advisable to install a mains powered detection system...

BUT if a customer doesn't want to pay for it and is happy with battery powered detectors there is NO obligation to install any!

5/

All CU's should have a label saying when it was last inspected and tested.. Reg 514.12.1 page 93 BS7671

And if there are RCD's and/or RCBO's a label advising quarterly tests via the test button.. Reg 514.12.2 page 94 BS 7671

If multiple colour codes in cable used then Non standard colours label should be fitted.. Reg 514.14.1 page 94 BS7671

All circuits should be clearly identified as to their purpose.. this could be an attached chart or drawing or labels on the CU.. Reg 514.9.1 page 93 BS7671.

Putting the labels on is good practice... but NOT legally enforceable!

6/

The electrician has an obligation to provide a certificate to the person ordering the work.. (in this case the builder if he paid the electricain?)..Reg 631.1 - 631.5 page 163 BS 7671.

But as per the labels and info guidance Reg 514.9.1 Page 93 a copy should also be available at the CU for any person doing future works/amendments.

7/

The bottom line re legal responsibilities is:-

What does the agreed contract of works specify is to be done?

typically this would be taken from a quotation agreement of some sort.

If it was all done by verbal agreement.. then TBH I don't think there are many legs to stand on?

e.g. if I take car to garage asking then to fix the brakes, I can't moan if they don't look at faulty wipers or headlights which I diddn't ask them to do!

A Builder electrician or any trader should only complete the requested works, Where the works are more than just a simple one off task this should be written down into some sort of contact agreement for the benefit of both parties

:coffee