bonding

[tom1]

couple of questions.

Supplementary bonding can be done before pipes enter the bathroom so

If u bond central heating pipes to hot and cold water will this cover all supplementary bonding.

And if 2 pipes are next to each other can they be bonded with 1 earth clamp thanks

 

[Rampage]

I'm no expert (I havn't got that far in my book!)

But don't they have to be bonded in a star formation?

Not forgetting Gas pipes.

I'm sure it'll be 1 clamp per pipe.

 

[SPECIAL LOCATION]

couple of questions.Supplementary bonding can be done before pipes enter the bathroom so

If u bond central heating pipes to hot and cold water will this cover all supplementary bonding.

And if 2 pipes are next to each other can they be bonded with 1 earth clamp thanks

If 17th edition

& All bathroom circuits are RCD protected

& All extraneous conductive parts are bonded (Earthy incoming service pipes)

THEN supplementary bonding is NOT needed...

2nd Part of Reg 701.415.2

bottom of page 166 Big Red Book!

 

[tom1]

the lights not on rcd

 

[SPECIAL LOCATION]

the lights not on rcd

Stick an RCBO or RCD fused spur into light circuit at CU then they are!

e.g...

http://www.screwfix.com/search.do;jsessionid=EVZNSNBIFXTOYCSTHZPCFFI?_dyncharset=UTF-8&fh_search=14770&searchbutton.x=11&searchbutton.y=8

 

[tom1]

thanks for the link were u get that so fast. Ha . Rcbo is on the cards I just know the neutral will be borrowed

 

[Apache]

thanks for the link were u get that so fast. Ha . Rcbo is on the cards I just know the neutral will be borrowed

Then just protect the bathroom lights with the RCD locally?

 

[tom1]

not a bad shout but would mean the rcd in the loft not a massive deal. They should make a rcd pull cord

 

[Apache]

not a bad shout but would mean the rcd in the loft not a massive deal. They should make a rcd pull cord

RCD FCU on ceiling above bathroom door? Needs to be accessible if trips

 

[tom1]

could do that its stud wall.

the thing is I am being tight. Its my house and I want to use it as a nic eic assessments for adding a socket but its my understanding that supplementary

bonding must be in place before any work is done

 

[tom1]

I have no bond to rad and no bond from light to pipe

 

[SPECIAL LOCATION]

could do that its stud wall.the thing is I am being tight. Its my house and I want to use it as a nic eic assessments for adding a socket but its my understanding that supplementary

bonding must be in place before any work is done

Not if its going to be compliant with 17th ed when work done!

MAIN BONDING MUST BE INPLACE...

but absolutely no need to:-

1. put supplementary bonding in..
   
2. do an alteration making it 17th ed compliant (which all current work must be)
   
3. Then take supplementary back out again!!!!! :|
   

 

[SPECIAL LOCATION]

thanks for the link were u get that so fast. Ha . Rcbo is on the cards I just know the neutral will be borrowed

If there is a borrowed neutral that you know about...

THIS NEEDS TO BE RESOLVED...

Just as much.. if not more, of a safety issue as sup bonding.

Borrowed neutral is NON compliance with reg 314.4 page 39.

Every circuit must be separate from all other circuits (paraphrase!)

:_|

remember borrowed neutral means TWO different fuses / MCBS, can energise the same section of cable....

High risk of person thinking circuit has been made dead for safe work..

but cable made live via another fuse & other light switches on a different floor!

:|

 

[tom1]

dont know if it is borrowed, would just be my luck.

the plan was to have the socket as minor work, so the lights are not on rcd this would not change and would need to get a bond to the rad and a bond from the light to the pipes.

thats why i was wondering if it covers me to bond them all together befor they enter the bathroom

while i am on it, the main bond cable to the gas has a crimp joining the cable together, is that ok?

 

[tom1]

right put the wander lead on the met, every rad in the house is 0 to 0.02 ohm

all the combi pipes and water pipes are 0 to 0.02 except the toilet pipe which is 2.37 must be a plastic push fit under the floor.

and to my shock horror the clase 1 light has no earth continuity back to the met, in my own home i feel so dirty, i just want to shower the dirty feeling off but am to scared of a electric shock. so up in the loft today.

so if i bond the toilet to the bath pipes and the light to the pipes will that cover it??

 

[musicspark]

Borrowed neutral would trip the RCD methinks

 

[Robin Spark]

Am I mis-understanding this thread?

Unless you have a huge bathroom, then in normal course of events you would not have socket outlets in the bathroom or a ring main cct in there.

So if you are adding a S/O then this must be in another room and has nothing to do with the bathroom so why would you be checking supp/boning if all you are doing is minor works? All you would need to do is verify the safety and integrity of that cct.

For example, If somebody asked you to fit an outside light then obviously check consumer unit main earth and main bonds, but unless you needed to answer the call of nature then your not going to start taking the customers bathroom apart.

 

[tom1]

Am I mis-understanding this thread? Unless you have a huge bathroom, then in normal course of events you would not have socket outlets in the bathroom or a ring main cct in there.

So if you are adding a S/O then this must be in another room and has nothing to do with the bathroom so why would you be checking supp/boning if all you are doing is minor works? All you would need to do is verify the safety and integrity of that cct.

For example, If somebody asked you to fit an outside light then obviously check consumer unit main earth and main bonds, but unless you needed to answer the call of nature then your not going to start taking the customers bathroom apart.

i was under the impresion that befor u can alter a circuit, the main and suplimentary bonding must be up to scrach, does not matter were the alteration takes place. am i wrong?

 

[Robin Spark]

i was under the impresion that befor u can alter a circuit, the main and suplimentary bonding must be up to scrach, does not matter were the alteration takes place. am i wrong?

Under 16th edition if you were doing electrical work in a bathroom then you would need to make sure that both supplementary bonding and main earthing were up to standard alongside all of your other prescribed tests.

Under 17th for bathrooms you still check the same but can omit the supplimentary bonding so long as:

1. All ccts in bathroom meet disconnection times (Zs)

2. All ccts in bathroom additionally protected by 30 ma rcd

3. All extraneuous conductive parts are effectively connected via main bonding to the MET

However all of the above applies to bathroom installations, so unless you have a bathroom where you can install a socket outlet at least 3 metres away from zone 1(edge of bath or shower tray) then you wont be allowed to install a socket outlet in your bathroom

So this now takes us to where we were previously. If you are just adding a socket outlet to a cct (not in a bathroom) and are not installing a new circuit then this will be a minor works certficate not related to the bathroom.

So with this in mind this is what you need to verify

1 That the earth contact of socket outlet is connected to MET (r1 + r2 test)

2 Measure the insulation resistance for the whole of that circuit and compare results to table 61 ( min 1meg ohms)

3 Check Zs

4 Check and confirm polarity

5 check effective operation of the rcd protecting that circuit. If one wasnt fitted before you will probably have to make provision for this now.

So for this scenario you will not need to check if supplimentary bonding is adequate in the bathroom.

However it would be good if you could give more detail as to the socket outlet addition that you intend to do.

Hope this helps

 

[tom1]

think that clears it up then. thanks