Can You Get An Unlabeled Wf100 Cable? Have I Been Conned?!?

[barkymalarkey]

Hi all (again!)

Had an aerial guy round today to replace wiring from aerial - dist amp - lounge (a new socket which he also installed).

I specifically asked for WF100 cable to be used throughout (in fact, I originally contacted him just to buy the cable and to do the job myself, but his quote was good and so I paid him do it). He quoted specifically for doing the work and using WF100. After doing the job today, I checked with him that WF100 had been used and he confirmed.

Just checked it now and he's used RG6 from the aerial to amp, and an unmarked black cable from amp to lounge. The black cable has a silver coloured foil rather than copper. I've attached some pics.

I'm really annoyed about the RG6 :angry:   :angry:    and now don't have a clue what the unmarked black cable is. So i wondered whether from the pics and the fact it is unmarked whether anyone could tell me what it might be (or what it's not!!!)

Any other thoughts or advice would also be great. Need to act quick so that I know what to go back to him with.

Huge thanks

Max
 

 

[kerching]

Well I am as much help as a politician in a crisis but, nowadays practically every cable I have seen from alarm cable up to 400mm AWA. Has some form of marking on it.  Even the carp foreign import shite!

get him to give you a written receipt that states all cable is WF100 etc etc etc

........he's not very neat at fitting F plugs

 

[SLIPSHOD & SLAPDASH]

True professionals don't use those screw on plugs, they crimp the ends. 

 

[ProDave]

RG6 is usually a copper plated steel inner core and aluminium foil.  It still seems to work well enough as satellite cable, so should be okay for tv, it's just more prone to corrosion if it gets damp.

He wasn't the best fitting those F plugs was he.

If your "contract" with him was to fit WF100 then he failed to fulfil the contract. If you just said "satellite" cable then he's done his job.

If I  was specifically asked to fit WF100 but all I had at the time was RG6 I would tell the customer and agree that was okay before proceeding.

 

[steptoe]

True professionals don't use those screw on plugs, they crimp the ends. 

why?

because crimp plugs are cheaper?

I see nothing wrong with the screw on ones as long as you use the correct size for the cable,

and fit them properly.

 

[barkymalarkey]

practically every cable I have seen from alarm cable up to 400mm AWA. Has some form of marking on it.  Even the carp foreign import shite!

........he's not very neat at fitting F plugs

Hmm, that's what I thought about the cable.  And no, didn't look to neat to my eyes either, although I wasn't sure of that's how it's done "in the trade".....

 it's just more prone to corrosion if it gets damp.

If your "contract" with him was to fit WF100 then he failed to fulfil the contract. If you just said "satellite" cable then he's done his job.

If I  was specifically asked to fit WF100 but all I had at the time was RG6 I would tell the customer and agree that was okay before proceeding.

Well, the cable goes through the roof tiles and up the aerial on the roof, so is well exposed to the elements and may get damp as a result.  That's one of the reasons I wanted WF100.

Indeed, the (albeit verbal) contract was for WF100.  It was specified a number of times and I was quite particular about it.  So I don't think he has fulfilled the quote/contract.

Glad to hear you would have asked the customer first.  Presumably you wouldn't have lied then either, if the customer asked you to confirm you had used WF100 after the job!

Incidentally ProDave.....  Any thoughts on the quality of the black unlabeled stuff?  

Thanks so much to everyone for the quick and helpful replies.

 

[steptoe]

mm,

the only way to even get a crazy wild idea of the quality visually is by stripping back some of the outer sheath,

and also looking at the spacer between that and the inner core, airspaced or foam etc,

its still very very hard to give an opinion on something like that via a picture alone, IMHO

oh, BTW,

perhaps he was cheap for a reason,,,,,

and, Id agree with the others, the plugs arent the neatest Ive seen, in fact, I do neater, and Im by no means an aerial sort of person, I generally only do that sort of stuff as an add on, or favour for good/regular customers.

 

[kme]

Concur with Mr Steptoe here.

I`ve got no issue with screw on F plugs at all - IF they`re done properly

As for the cable - if you have a written contract stating xxx should be used, and he`s fitted yyy instead - it isn`t what was specified. End of.

With regard to the external damp issue etc - all my external aerial connections get a good dose of self-amalgamating tape; for that very reason.

 

[M107]

I thought WF100 was copper braid over copper foil?

You seem to have a cheap version using ally foil, take the connector apart to check the core insulator is foam & not a plastic air gap insulator.

 

[OnOff]

I always use silicone grease when fitting F plugs.

 

[barkymalarkey]

Hi Guys

I tried my best to take some better photos of the black cable with the sheath pulled back a little.  Don't know if they help show how good the quality is/isn't???  Was a bit tough getting a good pic in the loft and took quite a few attempts!!!  Thank god for the digital age otherwise I would have wasted a few films methinks!

The photos don't show, but the inner is the airspaced plastic type, not foam

Cheers

 

[ProDave]

That looks like RG6 or a variant of it.

To be honest what are you hoping to achieve?

You said the guy did it cheap.

Yes you wanted WF100 and specifically asked for that, and the guy was bloody cheeky not to tell you he was using something different.

But I presume it works and you get a good signal?  Changing what you have for WF100 will not make a jot of difference.

 

[barkymalarkey]

Well, I'm not sure if it was cheap compared to others.  What I meant was it was the price was an amount which made me think I would rather have an expert do it than do it myself.  Plus my ladders were not long enough to reach the aerial so I would not have been able to do that part.

I've only had the chance to check the TV very quickly.  Some channels were showing bit errors on the "signal condition" page and jumping between 8 - 10 out of 10.  I checked them all a few days prior to the work and none had any bit errors at all, and all channels were a solid 10 out of 10.  I don't know what this means in real/practical terms, but it's definitely not a sign of an upgrade!

There's also the issue of longevity.  Both cables have a portion outdoors.  Both are plastic/airspaced, which I've read are more prone to failure in the long term because water ingress will damage them.  And I've read and been told the same is true of RG6 - which one cable definitely is and the other might be.  

So apart from being peeved that i was blatantly lied to, and that regardless of the cost he quoted me for WF100 (and I should add he actually charged more than the quote) these are the reasons why I'm unhappy.  

Hope that helps explain.

Thanks for the help.

 

[SLIPSHOD & SLAPDASH]

When you say airspaced do you mean it looks  a bit like a pizza across, I though only standard TV co-ax was like that & both WF100 & RG6 were foam filled ?

 

[betty swollocks]

How much did this job cost? I appreciate the price isn't the issue but I'm just curious, guy who does my tv stuff charged £120 and that was for a digi aerial on the roof, booster in the loft (which I wired up) and four tv points, I think that's cheap!

 

[kerching]

Well if it is any consolation to you....

i installed Aniference coax at home some 33 years ago. Cables run from amp to under the floor, up cavity, into roof void, through flashing and up to aerial .  Went digital around here about 3 years ago....signal reception is perfect EVEN with aerial that was replaced 20 years ago onto original cocoax 

just........glad I did not use shite in the first place

 

[batty]

I'm with you on that Kerch some of my cables are 30 years old or more. They work fine I have never heard of wf100. Is that similar to PF100?

 

[Bruspark]

Hi Guys

75 ohm 6.7 - 7.0 mm coax cables are known worldwide as RG6 type.   In the UK they are also known and marketed as WF100 PF100  . . . . anything 100  ( and just sometimes XX125 numbers eg Belden H125CU)

The issue was that no-one polices the RG6 spec so it can be pretty much anything . .  So the CT100 spec was introduced so UK satellite installers knew it would be OK . . and no policed it . .   so branded producers started making WF100 and TX100 and PF100 and flexible XX100 and WXYZ100 and no-one policed this either . . .      There are some EN specs which you can choose to not be policed by as well. . 

So saying WF100 is now about as useful as saying 'Something like a proper brick'    . .   It should look about right but beyond that who knows how and what it is made of and to what tolerance/specification . .

High grade WF100 from a reputable maker/supplier should have a solid foam insulator and a copper core and a substantial amount of copper braid over a genuine copper screen.      It is however far cheaper to make the cables with a few strands of aluminium screening braid,  sprayed foil sheets  and steel or alloy centres.  

Cable should be UV resistant and have a firm smooth and consistent outside dimension to ensure a tight fit with a screw on F plug, but in fact many different sizes of cable and plug exist.

Some things that are certain : 

Solid foam core cable bends a little less easily round tight corners than air spaced cable

Air cored cable can suck and syphon water from anywhere in the system to the place you least want it to be  . .

Air cored cable collapses /kinks more easily when bent / trapped creating complex problems with the transmission of digital signals in particular

Air cored cable folds up far more neatly and easily in accessory socket boxes etc . .   (See above)

Poor screening (Little braid,  sprayed plastic screen foil) can cause digital errors due to signal /interference pick up along the length of longer cable runs -  but so can poor aerial placement

Copper centres,  Copper braid and copper foil screens are better electrically

Screw F Plugs should be a tight fit on the cable but not too tight.  Pro installers stick to a couple of cable makes types and carry plugs that actually fit it

It is not unusual to find solid core cable from Aerial to a Masthead Amp  or loft box then flexible air spaced cable  used internally as it is easier to work with in accessory boxes etc

Crimped F Plugs are available but find little favour outside factory build / large system installations

F Plugs should be assembled with Silicone grease on/under the folded back braid and on the mating threads to prevent moisture getting IN the plugs.

Wrapping over the top of the assembled connections with Self Amalgamating tape is the best way to prevent rain etc. getting TO the plugs

Cut to the real world

If the cheapest cable is used and no attempt is made to waterproof an otherwise tight outside connection repeat business should conveniently present itself in 3 - 5 years

       IF the best cable is used and properly assembled and waterproofed repeat business on that house may be 20 years away . .      I think you can see the temptation here . .

Even the cheapest cable and most slapdash assembly will 'work' in many places for many years

Only the best cable and professional assembly will get a good digital signal in a very poor location

The location and pointing of the aerial remains the most important factor in a poor signal area

Buy cable on brand and type  not  type and price

If you don't mind a bit of inter-trade bad mouthing this is a good article on coax from a well respected TV expert   http://www.wrightsaerials.tv/articles/coax-cable-quality.shtml

and another http://www.satcure.co.uk/tech/cable.htm