Change Light Fitting - Where do the wires go? A little guidance from a pro please

[grafton]

I went to change a very old ceiling light and while i was dismantling it the assembly just fell apart in my hands. The back of the ceiling socket had three red wires in one connector, two black wires in another and one black wire in the third connector.

I'm replacing the old light fixture with a new round modern fitting which only has the option for the brown and blue wire to go in the back of the new light socket and a screw at the back of the socket for the earth.

There is a single pole switch, but i cannot identify the switch live or earth due to the colours.

I know that the red should be the new live (brown) and presumably some of the black wires will be the new neutral (blue).

I was wondering if anyone would be helpful enough to point me in the right direction please.

 

[Zeespark]

If you can hang about grafton, someone will be able to sort it for you, I have a stinking cold right now, I dont want to give you duff advice, so I am off up My wooden hill to My pit.

AndyGuinness

 

[Apache]

Can you take a picture?

DO NOT CONNECT ALL THE SAME COLOURED WIRES TOGETHER!

You will have a R&B cable that is the switched live that should have some sleeving but doesn't sound like it does. Do you have any test equipment? Can you do a continuity test?

 

[Manator]

Are the wires still connected to these connectors? If so you will find that the three red cables are the loop, so they are live, the two black wires are the nuetrals, and the single black (which should have a red sleeve on it) will be the switch wire. Providing you have not mixed them up you should be able to connect them the right way.

 

[grafton]

Thanks for the replies Zeespark (hope you feel better soon, a good tot of whisky might help), Apache and Manator.

I don't have any pics as the space the is very dark without a light and even my small camera will not take decent pics in the poor light. I don't have a tester, but could get one if necessary.

What should i do to earth the light. The switch (which i have looked behind has been earthed and there are two wires (red and black).

Unfortunately the wires are not connected to the connectors, but three reds (which were already twisted togther) were in one connector, two blacks were twisted togther in another connector and a single black in the third connector.

Sorry i might not have explained myself in the original post as the actual socket fell apart as i was unscrewing the plastic ring. the new light has a new socket set into the fitting which is at right angle to the ceiling and has to be screwed into the ceiling at three points.

 

[ProDave]

As Manator tried to explain:

the three reds twisted together are the permanent live loop through. They play no part in connecting to the light, but they MUST still all be joined together. REMEMBER they are LIVE even when the light switch is off, so turn off at the consumer unit / fuse box first.

Many light fittings don't have any provision for a loop through connection, so if that's the case, connect them together with a single insulated choc block connector.

The two blacks are the neutral, and they must both go to the N terminal of the light fitting.

The single black is the switched live. It must go to the L terminal of the light fitting. As it's missing it's sleeving, at least try and wrap a little red insulating tape around it to show it's a live conductor.

The bare wires that may or may not have had sleeving are the earth wires. They should be sleeved with green and yellow sleeving and connect to the earth terminal of the light fitting. If the fitting has no earth terminal, then join them all together in another choc block.

 

[grafton]

Thanks ProDave.

I'll go to B&Q and get the choc box connector, brown and blue sleeving.

I'm sorry to labour the point but there is provision for an earth on the light fitting as it has a metal backing plate i'm assuming it could be dangerous if the wires came into contact with it so how can i run an earth wire to it. I hope i haven't misunderstood your post though regarding the earth.

 

[SPECIAL LOCATION]

Are you saying the existing light circuit has no earth wires? If so it probably needs the whole circuit to be properly tested for safety as non-earth lighting circuits are now 40+ years old...

Earthing in lighting circuits was introduced around 1966, so all wiring since then should have had earths installed..

Without a proper continuity tester and insulation resistance test I would not recommend anyone installs any metal fitting requiring earth onto your lighting circuits.

:|

 

[grafton]

Thanks Special Location, I think i will go and replace the light with a non metal one. i assume there must be an earth as the switch has one.

 

[SPECIAL LOCATION]

Thanks Special Location, I think i will go and replace the light with a non metal one. i assume there must be an earth as the switch has one.

Can you see the cables very easily?

some times people cut the earth off if they have a fitting that didn't have an earth connection!!!!

But they should always be terminated and continued through for the rest of the circuit.

Where about are you?

Maybe one of our members are near by who could pop in and do a quick continuity test to check if you do have earths on the lights circuit?

 

[grafton]

Thanks for all the help today. A very easy to use forum and very friendly.

 

[batty]

Earth wires may be stuffed up in ceiling but i am seriously worried you are going to hurt yourself. Instructions probably tell you not to install unless you are competant.

 

[a1]

That is why he is being responsible and asking on here Batty, mate.

 

[steptoe]

^+1 admin

its like this folks,

some peeps will buy a light and just stick it up anyway it fits and hope it works,

others will seek some guidance from the likes of ourselves,

hopefully they are reasonably capable, they are certainly using their heads and asking for advice,

what we need to bear in mind though is this,

these folks are very unlikely to go to the expense of getting a spark in for any number of reasons,

it could be cost, hassle or something else,

we need to help,guide and advise as best we can,

in this situation I think a plastic fitting is the order of the day,

and the OP has decided that is their best course of action,

in all honesty, how much would any of you actually NEED to go put a light fitting up?

fuel and van wear and tear, plus at LEAST an hours time, probably more from leaving home to getting back in,

its not a practical cost for a lot of people for a light that maybe cost a tenner from argos,

 

[batty]

Thing is Steps if it was local i would probably charge

 

[Theorysparky]

im with you Batty

 

[steptoe]

Thing is Steps if it was local i would probably charge

 

[Apache]

I can understand that batty,but that is believe it or not almost a days wages to some people,