Christmas Lights in public places

[Simon2ce]

For the last 20 years I’ve been involved with installing Christmas Lights for public displays in villages/ towns and shopping centres. When I started a lot of the lights were either low voltage strings, 230v rope light on frames or 230v festoon with 15w-25w lamps, 230v festoon and rope light is still used in loads of places however it’s all LED lamps and “fairy light strings” are mostly 230v with a inline acdc rectifier.
Using 230v lights out of public reach (over 3m) isn’t a problem however on a Christmas tree that the public can reach its my understanding that 25v selv lights must be used although I can’t find the regulation that this relates to.
I’ve dug my heels in with one group I work with as If anyone gets hurt I could be liable and I want to have the paperwork to back up my claims.

Hopefully you can help.

 

[Geoff1946]

If I were you I would invoke Health and Safety at work etc act, and point out that they would have difficulty when doing their risk assessment, which would lead to having to securely fence off the display before it could be switched on.
Alternatively appeal to their common sense and ask how they would feel is some curious kid was killed due to their festive intent.

 

[Simon2ce]

If I were you I would invoke Health and Safety at work etc act, and point out that they would have difficulty when doing their risk assessment, which would lead to having to securely fence off the display before it could be switched on.
Alternatively appeal to their common sense and ask how they would feel is some curious kid was killed due to their festive intent.

Thanks Geoff, these are the things I’ve been referring to but the reply is “we’ve been doing this for over 30 years and never had any problems “ I really need the legislation to show them. If after showing them it as an official statement they still don’t listen then I will have to walk away

 

[Geoff1946]

TBH if they are doing anything in public and unaware of their H&S responsibilities I wouldn't want to be involved with them anyway.

 

[mort2376]

I know the Christmas tree lights that are installed by the local council here are 110v. The transformer is located at the bottom of the tree. Admittedly there is a barrier of sorts to get close to the tree, but that would definitely lower the risk.

 

[binky]

Thanks Geoff, these are the things I’ve been referring to but the reply is “we’ve been doing this for over 30 years and never had any problems “ I really need the legislation to show them. If after showing them it as an official statement they still don’t listen then I will have to walk away

ask them to sign a disclaimer saying anythng goes wrong and it's their problem. At the very least write an email stating your concerns.

Having also been involved with xmas lights and a few other public works, I would stick to your guns! What was acceptable 30 years ago certainly isn't now, and given how cheap led lights are, there's really no need to risk anything at all. I can't think of any direct legislation that refers to this in the electrical regs, however, within H&S guidelines there is a requirement to continuously review risks and minimise them where feasibly possible. Where that cant be done, then separation of the public from the source of risk, ie barriers is the way forward.

 

[michael8554]

Although safety should be paramount, recent H&S regs have just about killed our village Carnival.
Which at 126 years old is one of the oldest in the country.
For example, the petrol generators that floats have used for years now have to be replaced with diesel ones.
More police, more first-aiders, more insurance etc.
Though to an extent they have got away with it for too long.
There's never been a problem, but I guess "accidents will happen"

 

[Geoff1946]

recent H&S regs have just about killed our village Carnival.

Is it H&S Regulations though, or over enthusiastic risk assessments and over severe hazard control measures that are the problem ?

 

[binky]

Is it H&S Regulations though, or over enthusiastic risk assessments and over severe hazard control measures that are the problem ?

As we have discussed before, HSE guidelines require ' reasonable' steps to reduce risk, not elimination of risk.

 

[michael8554]

"Is it H&S Regulations though, or over enthusiastic risk assessments and over severe hazard control measures that are the problem ?"

Hard to say, I'm not close enough to the decision making.

 

[binky]

forgot to say, if you have identified potential safety issues, then there should be a plan to implement changes, that cna be spread over 1-2years, the important bit as far as legal bum covering is that an action plan is in place, and the time scale is 'reasonable'.

Also did some quick gogling, BS7909 is probably what you need and this guideline may help. https://www.milton-keynes.gov.uk/sites/default/files/2022-04/Seasonal Lighting CODE OF PRACTICE.pdf