commando sockets
- Thread starter soulman
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As far as I am aware, a suitably wired ring or radial would be fine soulman.
AndyGuinness
AndyGuinness
Zee is correct - you can "daisy-chain", ring, whatever........it is up to you; as long as you calculate the circuit correctly; and allow for appropriate isolation; mutual detrimental influences, etc.
they can be wired as a radial, the OPD must be that of the socket or less, except 16A, which can be proteected by 20A
Doc Hudson
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I would think a key difference to remember is that the commando plugs & sockets do not have any integral fusing to provide any additional overload protection, unlike 13A plugs. So needs a bit more discussion with the client to verify what loads they are going to plug in.
Doc H.
Doc H.
Agree with the Doc
Although I would like to add that if they are for caravans that each outlet must have it's own RCD protection IIRC
Although I would like to add that if they are for caravans that each outlet must have it's own RCD protection IIRC
An interesting difference of opinion arose some years back on a job .
I had daisy chained a number of 32A 2ph commando type sky rockets at a fabrication unit . (About 4 IIRC)
A subbie working for us at the time couldn't get his head round it , saying each should be wired back to the board.
The point was I had discussed it with the owners ,especially costs, and what they wanted was to move their one and only arc welder to four different areas in the works . To me it was horses for courses but the subbie was tunnel visioned into seperate circuits and could 't see past that.
I saw ....1 welder and 4 sockets
He saw....4 welders and 4 sockets ( he had done this electrician thing again of conjuring up 3 non existant welders all running at the same time )
He was the same bloke who maintained that we shouldn't pass the lighting neutral through the switch box (Conduit job) and did it as my sketch which I will post below.
---------- Post Auto-Merged at 22:08 ---------- Previous post was made at 22:02 ----------
This is still there at City Hospital B,ham on one of the stairways, I remember the hospital engineer looking at it and scratching his head " Where do they get these ideas from" he said . The painters had followed us up and it was too late to alter it.
I had daisy chained a number of 32A 2ph commando type sky rockets at a fabrication unit . (About 4 IIRC)
A subbie working for us at the time couldn't get his head round it , saying each should be wired back to the board.
The point was I had discussed it with the owners ,especially costs, and what they wanted was to move their one and only arc welder to four different areas in the works . To me it was horses for courses but the subbie was tunnel visioned into seperate circuits and could 't see past that.
I saw ....1 welder and 4 sockets
He saw....4 welders and 4 sockets ( he had done this electrician thing again of conjuring up 3 non existant welders all running at the same time )
He was the same bloke who maintained that we shouldn't pass the lighting neutral through the switch box (Conduit job) and did it as my sketch which I will post below.
---------- Post Auto-Merged at 22:08 ---------- Previous post was made at 22:02 ----------
This is still there at City Hospital B,ham on one of the stairways, I remember the hospital engineer looking at it and scratching his head " Where do they get these ideas from" he said . The painters had followed us up and it was too late to alter it.
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Isn't it a bit dangerous having welders in hospitals?An interesting difference of opinion arose some years back on a job .I had daisy chained a number of 32A 2ph commando type sky rockets at a fabrication unit . (About 4 IIRC)
A subbie working for us at the time couldn't get his head round it , saying each should be wired back to the board.
The point was I had discussed it with the owners ,especially costs, and what they wanted was to move their one and only arc welder to four different areas in the works . To me it was horses for courses but the subbie was tunnel visioned into seperate circuits and could 't see past that.
I saw ....1 welder and 4 sockets
He saw....4 welders and 4 sockets ( he had done this electrician thing again of conjuring up 3 non existant welders all running at the same time )
He was the same bloke who maintained that we shouldn't pass the lighting neutral through the switch box (Conduit job) and did it as my sketch which I will post below.
---------- Post Auto-Merged at 22:08 ---------- Previous post was made at 22:02 ----------
This is still there at City Hospital B,ham on one of the stairways, I remember the hospital engineer looking at it and scratching his head " Where do they get these ideas from" he said . The painters had followed us up and it was too late to alter it.
You've missed you're medication again, hav'nt you , Batts?
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He also maintained that you can't run horizontally between accessoriesm hence the goalpost conduit work.
And that you can't take the return leg of the ring through a socket box , hence the tee boxes .
He cost us a fortune TBH because he was always right , he took 3 weeks holiday and we didn't invite him back .
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These were the goalposts , steel conduit , I couldn't believe it TBH
He would'nt accept that you can run horizontally between sockets so we had to say "you do it our way when you sub to us" He hated it and thankfully beggered off shortly after .
He was actually screaming at us that you can't run the ring main through the socket boxes , right Pound of Butter, he was.
---------- Post Auto-Merged at 01:01 ---------- Previous post was made at 00:52 ----------
He also maintained that you can't run horizontally between accessoriesm hence the goalpost conduit work.
And that you can't take the return leg of the ring through a socket box , hence the tee boxes .
He cost us a fortune TBH because he was always right , he took 3 weeks holiday and we didn't invite him back .
---------- Post Auto-Merged at 01:09 ---------- Previous post was made at 01:01 ----------
These were the goalposts , steel conduit , I couldn't believe it TBH
He would'nt accept that you can run horizontally between sockets so we had to say "you do it our way when you sub to us" He hated it and thankfully beggered off shortly after .
He was actually screaming at us that you can't run the ring main through the socket boxes , right Pound of Butter, he was.
Deke, by the sounds of Him, even I would be getting annoyed with Him
AndyGuinness
AndyGuinness
Doc Hudson
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The other day Deke you were complaining of not being able to load images onto the forum, now you have just gone mad adding images like they are going out of fashion. You clearly solved your problem?
Doc H.
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Yes, Bill Gates succeed where I failed. What would the Mac lovers say to that..............
Theres no stopping me now Doc, Patche had me on the right tracks but for some reason I can't upload a pic while using the Firefox browser, change to Int,Exp and works a treat.
My thanks to Patche for persevering with my amateuristic computering. :Neil
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Trouble was he went balistic , you couldn't discuss anything . Thing was back then , our clients were West Mids Police, local hospitals , schools , all using electrical consultants for design etc. so you were trying to explain some of this stuff to them . Not good.
My thanks to Patche for persevering with my amateuristic computering. :Neil
---------- Post Auto-Merged at 20:19 ---------- Previous post was made at 20:01 ----------
Funny thing was he was a good sparks, inasmuch as he wanted to to do a good job, but had taken on these preconceived ideas from his previous employment and seemed incapable of seeing any other method.Deke, by the sounds of Him, even I would be getting annoyed with Him
Trouble was he went balistic , you couldn't discuss anything . Thing was back then , our clients were West Mids Police, local hospitals , schools , all using electrical consultants for design etc. so you were trying to explain some of this stuff to them . Not good.
Evans post number 10 first pic shows the way I was taught to do conduit as 'its the council want it' , when it wasnt a council funded building it wasnt done like that. I never bought into the logic, ALM boxes hardly ever need replacing, and all cables are cut in the box so replacing would be a doddle anyway.
I know what you mean Wozz. Thing was (is) the council spec. has all the pet ideas and ideosyncrasys of it's writer , and then they start to become the norm. As you say , do whatever they want if its specified but it don't make it right.
Birmingham Council always specified metal sheathing (capping) to be earthed .
And , this is a good one, which Ive posted before............ we were made to bond the foil covering on that thick fibreglass lagging on some boiler room pipes .
The lagging is about 3" thick with a Bacofoil type covering , had to push a self tapper into it with a crimp lug and some 4mm G/Yell to the next bit. :C
One job for the Hospital board was all surface steel conduit . The spec .for fitting a switch or socket was the MK surface box which takes a flush accessory, connected to the conduit with what was called a "flanged coupler" wich came complete with a lead washer,a seratted steel washer and an extra long 20mm bush . All operatives to use a "Bush King" bush spanner.
Trouble was , when you came away from that job the usual way didn't look right anymore. (Until you remembered the cost of those things)
Birmingham Council always specified metal sheathing (capping) to be earthed .
And , this is a good one, which Ive posted before............ we were made to bond the foil covering on that thick fibreglass lagging on some boiler room pipes .
The lagging is about 3" thick with a Bacofoil type covering , had to push a self tapper into it with a crimp lug and some 4mm G/Yell to the next bit. :C
One job for the Hospital board was all surface steel conduit . The spec .for fitting a switch or socket was the MK surface box which takes a flush accessory, connected to the conduit with what was called a "flanged coupler" wich came complete with a lead washer,a seratted steel washer and an extra long 20mm bush . All operatives to use a "Bush King" bush spanner.
Trouble was , when you came away from that job the usual way didn't look right anymore. (Until you remembered the cost of those things)
ROTFWL
thebantam
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:slap :slap:slapROTFWLROTFWLROTFWL
That is a good one Evans, i've heard it all now!
Going back to the OP,
Do you need to have an isolator at the commando socket or not? I have seen a few installations where there is no isolator and the users just disconnect the plug from the socket. I've always thought that's not good practice but wasn't sure how it ties in with the regs. :C
There is a table in the regs showing IIRC that a plug & socket up to a certain current rating is acceptable for emergency isolation?
Anyone got regs around?
My memory is not good, worked this am, then watched quali, with a few Guinness
A plug & socket is also OK for isolation for mechanical maintenance.
Anyone got regs around?
My memory is not good, worked this am, then watched quali, with a few Guinness
A plug & socket is also OK for isolation for mechanical maintenance.
Hi all,
Table 53.2
Plug and socket outlet up to 32A can be used for isolation and also functional switching too believe it or not!!
One above 32A can only be used for isolation..
john..
Table 53.2
Plug and socket outlet up to 32A can be used for isolation and also functional switching too believe it or not!!
One above 32A can only be used for isolation..
john..
