Comments on EICRs.

[Evans Electric]

I refer to the Letters page of the PE  Magazine  ..."  Attitudes towards EICRs need to change "   

One letter from an employee  who is not given enough time to carry it out properly  and has to write out the certs in his own time .   

He then discovers his QS   is altering the codes  etc  to get  either satisfactory or unsatisfactory  based on whether they want the work it generates.  

The other letter refers to a young guy taking short cuts ...was challenged by the resident .   He was told  that Company A  got the contract from the landlord , subbed it out to company B , who subbed it out to the poor sod on site  who was paid £25  for each  test and was expected  to do 4-5 a day .  

In both cases the landlord is being sold short with a dodgy  cert dashed out in an offhand way .           I hope this attitude doesn't spread to the GasSafe  guys .     

 

[Sharpend]

Doubt it, has safe guys wouldn’t compete at the bottom, no they are more your mid depth feeders, only the excrement falls all the way to the bottom. 

 

[Evans Electric]

Lets hope not .   In  the second letter  I'd say we have  company A  possibly  a scheme member ,   subs it out to a self employed guy, company B , non scheme member  who subs it again  to another non scheme member  , the kid on £25  per test .  

You wouldn't want that with a Gas inspection .  

The first contractor appointed ,  company A   should be struck off for malpractice .

 

[Murdoch]

I’d partly blame the CPSs for this farcical position

sure you don’t need to be a scheme member to do EICRs but they have a responsibility to guide joe public, which they could easily do, but choose not to

wonder why?

 

[boltonsparky]

Worries me that somebody is going to get bitten fatally with this current EICR fiasco, what a mess. 

Sooner or later la merde va frapper le ventilateur.

 

[OnOff]

I’d partly blame the CPSs for this farcical position

sure you don’t need to be a scheme member to do EICRs but they have a responsibility to guide joe public, which they could easily do, but choose not to

wonder why?

I didn't realise you didn't have to be a scheme member until I just read it here:

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/electrical-safety-standards-in-the-private-rented-sector-guidance-for-landlords-tenants-and-local-authorities/guide-for-landlords-electrical-safety-standards-in-the-private-rented-sector

I read that as long as you have qualifications inc 18th and 2391 (or some form of test & inspect qualification) plus insurance you're good to go. 

Yet the NICEIC are pedalling their "electrical inspector" scheme. Let's ignore if they even have 2391 it seems. 

All very confusing. 

 

[Sharpend]

Every competent electrician should be suitably qualified to test, if they are permitted/required to test their own installed work then testing an existing shouldn’t be out of their remit either. 
we really need to make a stand against this nanny state hand holding bunch, we don’t need them. 

 

[OnOff]

Every competent electrician should be suitably qualified to test, if they are permitted/required to test their own installed work then testing an existing shouldn’t be out of their remit either. 
we really need to make a stand against this nanny state hand holding bunch, we don’t need them. 

So does having done the testing and inspection section in other qualifications like say the 302 module in the 2330 qualify you to test? Its the self same sequence of tests as prescribed in GN3 As long as taught / done correctly. Nothing's clear in all this. 

I currently have a letting agent telling me first we need a Legionairres test and they can do it for £X. Not actually law. Then £X for a smoke alarm test and £X for a CO alarm test. Erm...CO test not law. As for the EICR, same old b@llocks. Asking for NICEIC though nothing in their small print. Then telling me there's a new "inspectors" qualification. 

Last one I got my NAPIT mate to do and told them to take it or leave it. They took it. 

 

[Murdoch]

I didn't realise you didn't have to be a scheme member until I just read it here:

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/electrical-safety-standards-in-the-private-rented-sector-guidance-for-landlords-tenants-and-local-authorities/guide-for-landlords-electrical-safety-standards-in-the-private-rented-sector

I read that as long as you have qualifications inc 18th and 2391 (or some form of test & inspect qualification) plus insurance you're good to go. 

Yet the NICEIC are pedalling their "electrical inspector" scheme. Let's ignore if they even have 2391 it seems. 

All very confusing. 

The reason I'm blaming the CPS's is not because we have to be members of schemes which we don't, it's their inability to help resolve this unfolding crock is shyte

 

[boltonsparky]

So does having done the testing and inspection section in other qualifications like say the 302 module in the 2330 qualify you to test? Its the self same sequence of tests as prescribed in GN3 As long as taught / done correctly. Nothing's clear in all this. 

I did my 2330 L3 a good number of years ago now along with my 2357 (I think that number is right) NVQ level 3 and recently when enquiring with NAPIT they said it was no good on its own, you must have the 2391 or their own £250 course to be enrolled on their scheme.

 

[Sharpend]

All the CPS’s will ask/require the 2391 to prove testing competency for Eicr’s but is it necessary by BS7671, does the testing section in BS7671 say that you can only test your own work? Does the C&G course for electrical installation say you can only test our own work? 
It would seem odd that the C&G installation courses are a prerequisite to competency and they teach test procedures etc for compliance of BS7671 which whilst not law is the guidance we are required to use for compliance, and would thus be referred to in any court case? If it’s not legal requirement to be a member of a trade body for compliance then in law they are not recognised as it is not required for compliance to BS7671 :C  

 

[Evans Electric]

My work partner's brother was a lecturer at the main college in Brum for  electrical apprentices  / Sparks    .   He always said  , these days , its just about getting bums on seats . 

He was right  ...looking back at my 1000 yrs in the trade  I don't remember qualified Sparks  constantly returning to colleges to take courses .

Just the few high fliers who were destined for great things were allowed to continue  with  ,  C & Gs  "C"    then ONC , HNC    etc  .   ( Many did it in their own time at night school  I think)     

The first return to college  was the 16th  as I remember it . 

 

[Evans Electric]

All the CPS’s will ask/require the 2391 to prove testing competency for Eicr’s but is it necessary by BS7671, does the testing section in BS7671 say that you can only test your own work? Does the C&G course for electrical installation say you can only test our own work? 

My gripe with this stupid situation  is the scams  want you to take  /pay for  , yet another course in EICRs  .          Yet they have already assessed you as competent enough to test your own  installs ./  sign them off/  notify  etc    . 

And as I've already written to MPs on this  with no reply..............   the  EICR  test  is exactly the  FRIGGING SAME AS  THE INSTALLATION  TEST.  !!  

As I said before ..... I could have rewired  a rental property ,   tested it to BS 7671  ...Part P ... 18th edition         ,  and issued an installation  cert .      

Then could be there a week later doing an EICR .     :C   

 

[Murdoch]

CPS membership would be pointless unless they took responsibility and checked EVERY EICR and picked up members on poor practice, such as giving plastic CU's a C2 to generate work.

We all knew this was going to be a farce, I wrote to the committee when they were coming up with the legislation and pointed out the errors of their plans ...............

 

[Sharpend]

And they still went ahead, what does that tell you! Money, Money, Money that what they want!

 

[Murdoch]

And they still went ahead, what does that tell you! Money, Money, Money that what they want!

But there's no money in it for the CPS's .........................

 

[Sharpend]

But there's no money in it for the CPS's .........................

Of course not they are all non profit organisations

 

[Murdoch]

Of course not they are all non profit organisations

with very complex financial reporting which means its almost impossible to understand if they make money and how much they pay their staff ..............

 

[OnOff]

I did my 2330 L3 a good number of years ago now along with my 2357 (I think that number is right) NVQ level 3 and recently when enquiring with NAPIT they said it was no good on its own, you must have the 2391 or their own £250 course to be enrolled on their scheme.

I stopped after I'd done 2330 L3. Tbh was gobsmacked they wanted me to go on and do whatever NVQ 235* after 3 years of college already. I never realised tbh that the 2330 L3 wasn't an NVQ.

I also did a 35 week EAL Part P when it was all the rage that included all dead and live tests. I know people knock the Part P courses but this one was bloody good. Even did MICC and tray work along with swa. I don't mean read about and got given a hand out but physically "doing it".

Same college as the 2330 and the test and inspecting taught in the EAL was exactly the same as in the 2330 right down to the same lecturer. What was so so telling in the first year of the 2330 was people who had done 5 or even 3 day Part P courses. 

 

[Evans Electric]

But there's no money in it for the CPS's .........................

There is Murdo  , they view EICRs as a  separate skill  and are looking to assess you for doing them .       Probably another £500  PA