Commercial testing

[Riggy]

I have never been asked by a customer if I was NIC, the only people who ever ask are other electricians - what does that tell us?

 

[green-hornet]

The only time I get asked is when its for an insurance claim or a HSE situation.

I have seen some bad installs from most sectors, from the bang it in and hope it works to the downright shocking (pun not intended).

I think at the end of the day its down to good workmanship and pride in your work.

I do agree I think there is some degree of snobery in electricians, but I am more mellow and humble now.

 

[bigclive]

maybe if you had explained the situation to them, i.e tell them there is more to life than the NIC, they would have had a different view and you may have got more work through it. many people i work for are not bothered if im nic or whatever, they know they can trust me to do the work and thats the most important thing

I was young and actually believed the NICEIC hype at the time. I was always particularly proud when one of my jobs was visited by their "inspector" and got the thumbs up. (Which it always did.)

Now I see them for what they are. A privately run profit making organisation.

Given that nowadays every odd job man seems to have an NICEIC sticker on their van, I'll be making sure I NEVER have one on mine.

 

[Andy™]

maybe were onto something here.... instead of 'were NIC', maybe some signwriting saying 'were not NIC, so can keep the prices down!'

 

[Wislum]

Actually chaps you are correct in saying you have to be competent to do the task. The big question is what is competent and how is it measured. Well within our industry it is when you have cleared the relevant hurdle. For inspection and tyesting that hurdle is the C&G 2391. Once you have gained that you have reached the level of competence required for all electrical testing work.

 

[Andy™]

but you could easily be competent without 2391. although proving it may be a little harder

 

[green-hornet]

Actually chaps you are correct in saying you have to be competent to do the task. The big question is what is competent and how is it measured. Well within our industry it is when you have cleared the relevant hurdle. For inspection and tyesting that hurdle is the C&G 2391. Once you have gained that you have reached the level of competence required for all electrical testing work.

There is a very grey area in this respect.

Levels of training and qualifications can be used to prove competancy.

However I have employed electricians who have no formal qualifications, but have worked in the industry for years.

I find their experiance vital sometimes, this was shown on one occasion where I did a comercial new build.

The electrical engineer who worked alongside the architect had every calculation to hand and had every componant dotted and dashed.

We quoted the work based on the electrical engineers specification.

One of my lads pointed out that the specs where wrong, this was the first couple of days into the job.

The electrical engineer responsible came on to site to basically tell us we where morons, until my lad told him that he had calculated on a maximum design that was about 20% off the final build design.

No calculations had been altered for extra distribution boards or the extra 40 mtr extension not worked into the plans.

I would like to think on this occasion he was more competant than I was.

I also think I can symathise with the old school who do not wish to put their name to the part p scheme for the same reasons.

BS7671 is not an enforcable law, providing your installations are safe there is no court in the country that could find you incompatant.

Just the same as if you deviate from the regulations, if you have a valid reason for a deviation, and note it on the certificate issued there is nothing anyone can do.You have not broken any law.

PIR's? if you have installed three phase for the last 30 years I would expect your competant enough to test them.

My only gripe with any of this is the fact that some people who have no experiance will put themselves and others in danger.

Like all trades we have good and bad,if your good your normally sorting out all the bad.If your bad your normally laughing at all us who sort out the bad jobs.

Safety is everything.

 

[Riggy]

Excellent post G-H

 

[wozz]

I have never been asked by a customer if I was NIC, the only people who ever ask are other electricians - what does that tell us?

When it comes to householders i think i have been asked more times 'are you corgi' than 'are you niceic' or 'are you PartP'!!!!!

 

[sellers]

Really interesting read this. Thanks guys. I didn't know you didn't have to be part of a money making scheme to test commercial properties. I'm looking to join up with elecsa for domestic work, but always was unsure about the fact they don't cover commercial. But no worries now.

So for all you who work on commercial that aren't registered with anyone, how do you go about testing, recording, etc? Can you even do periodics? As long as you are competent of course. Don't some building insurers require the test certs for commercial buildings?

Thanks

 

[Andy™]

Really interesting read this. Thanks guys. I didn't know you didn't have to be part of a money making scheme to test commercial properties. I'm looking to join up with elecsa for domestic work, but always was unsure about the fact they don't cover commercial. But no worries now. So for all you who work on commercial that aren't registered with anyone, how do you go about testing, recording, etc? Can you even do periodics? As long as you are competent of course. Don't some building insurers require the test certs for commercial buildings?

Thanks

as long as your competent, do what you want

 

[Janice]

Just to throw my tuppence-worth in...

The only time you will need to show competency is in a court of law - something has gone pear-shaped. You will be asked if you are competent. Wave your C&G (anything) in the air and say "Yes".

It's now up to the plaintiff to refute your claim. In other words, you are now innocent until proved guilty.

J.

 

[jibspark]

supprised no one has mentioned the JIB with all this talk of commercial and industrial installs, when im subbying i wouldnt stand a chance of getting on site without my gold card!

 

[batty]

supprised no one has mentioned the JIB with all this talk of commercial and industrial installs, when im subbying i wouldnt stand a chance of getting on site without my gold card!

All depends who you are working for. I do a lot of commercial and have never been jib approved.

Batty

 

[Andy™]

ive never been asked for jib either

 

[bigclive]

the only reason we have to show our JIB cards on sites these days is because it is the electrical industries CSCS certification too. Of course, you could just do the labourers CSCS multi choice exam at a local insta-test centre and get on site with that. Most of the guys doing electrical work on sites are labourers anyway.

The electrical one is much more expensive and also forces you to update your 16th/17th certification. The expense is justified by the high level of industry specific questions like:-

Your mate gets an electric shock and doesn't feel well. What do you do?

A. Sit him down with a nice hot cup of tea.

B. Seek medical assistance.

C. Send him home for the day.

No seriously.....

 

[green-hornet]

I did mine almost two years back now I dont think I will bother when it comes up for renewal.

I never changed my jib card last time because it was not really required.

I like the hard hat question.

It asks for the answer to what a hard hat protects you from.

I think the answers where something like

A. A falling steel girder

B. A gust of wind

C. A belt from a hammer

D. Light falling debri

Something on those lines anyway I almost laughed all the way through the test.

 

[bigclive]

Another real test question.

How many operatives can stand on a ladder simultaneously.

A. One

B. Two

C. As many as can comfortably fit on it.

 

[Andy™]

or

D: Ladders are banned under H&S. get a cherry picker

 

[biggles69]

........So for all you who work on commercial that aren't registered with anyone, how do you go about testing, recording, etc? Can you even do periodics? As long as you are competent of course. Don't some building insurers require the test certs for commercial buildings?Thanks

I have to say several commercial property owners I have spoken to have all said their buildings & contents AND public liability insurers have insisted on seeing their copy of the electrical test certificates which MUST have been completed on NICEIC 'Approved Contractors' paperwork. They were hairdressers, pub landlords, shop keepers and a car dealership.

There seems to be quite a difference in who wants to see what on this subject.

Bigs