Correct way to joint 3 x 30 Amp cables, 30A JB not big enough

[Fleeting]

3x 6.0mm lever connectors...
https://www.tlc-direct.co.uk/Products/WA613C.html

or
3x 6.0mm push fit connectors..
https://www.tlc-direct.co.uk/Products/WA173.html

either option fitted inside a suitable enclosure..

simple solution been around for years now..


(p.s. the 6.0mm lever jobbies are very useful for joining temp connections for dead tests during fault investigation.. )

One of those cables is likely to be larger that 6mm if it is imperial.

 

[monkey5]

Where abouts are you in Lincolnshire?

 

[SPECIAL LOCATION]

One of those cables is likely to be larger that 6mm if it is imperial.

Well here opens another can-o-worms...

Just how much give & take is there on the tolerances of wago connectors...?
Should they only ever be used on metric sized conductor CSA's?

or....

Is an imperial conductor pushed into a dedicated slot in a wago connector.. safer or more dangerous than a three cables butchered with strands cut into a single lug on a cross-threaded 30A round J/box???

Providing the current rating of the connection device is suitable for the load current and the rating of the protective device..

I can hazard a guess at what our late esteemed colleague "Sir Deke" would have suggested with reference to the problem, compared to a reasonable solution and the intervention of the "Electric Police"??

But... if we can't do it..
Then I suspect its a circuit re-wire needed???

 

[Fleeting]

Well here opens another can-o-worms...

Just how much give & take is there on the tolerances of wago connectors...?
Should they only ever be used on metric sized conductor CSA's?

or....

Is an imperial conductor pushed into a dedicated slot in a wago connector.. safer or more dangerous than a three cables butchered with strands cut into a single lug on a cross-threaded 30A round J/box???

Providing the current rating of the connection device is suitable for the load current and the rating of the protective device..

I can hazard a guess at what our late esteemed colleague "Sir Deke" would have suggested with reference to the problem, compared to a reasonable solution and the intervention of the "Electric Police"??

But... if we can't do it..
Then I suspect its a circuit re-wire needed???

They can be used for imperial conductors providing the csa falls within the suggested conductor size for the connector.

 

[grumpyjohn01]

As far as I am aware there is no approved MF assembly for 3 or even 2 sets of conductors in 6mm on a 32A circuit, (ie a huge proportion of cooker circuits out there split into 2 appliances.) Obvs the best option is to use a dual outlet in an accessible position but kitchen refurbs being what they are I find I am regularly faced with this problem. I'm afraid where needs must and rewire is unfeasible I will make up my own assembly generally using the larger 221s and whatever enclosure seems best, they are concealed so the electric police don't know and yes they are better than something round and brown shoved into a void.

 

[ruggedscot]

As far as I am aware there is no approved MF assembly for 3 or even 2 sets of conductors in 6mm on a 32A circuit, (ie a huge proportion of cooker circuits out there split into 2 appliances.) Obvs the best option is to use a dual outlet in an accessible position but kitchen refurbs being what they are I find I am regularly faced with this problem. I'm afraid where needs must and rewire is unfeasible I will make up my own assembly generally using the larger 221s and whatever enclosure seems best, they are concealed so the electric police don't know and yes they are better than something round and brown shoved into a void.

so a bodge..... and we wonder why.....
requires to be properly resolved with the right kit. or rewired to move the pudding joint to an easy place. pudding joint kitchen... who would have thought it....

 

[Fleeting]

Solder it the old ways are best.

 

[fourtytwo]

Thank you again everybody, because the MF connectors cannot guarantee to accommodate the cable size I am going to go with the 60A JB that has a capacity of 50mm2 per terminal and four screws per terminal together with strain reliefs. A substantial improvement over whats there and remember screws have been used in electrical circuits since the beginning! This may not be what the regs recommend but it is a pragmatic solution given what they recommend doesn't exist! Please don't turn this thread into another bun fight with the thought police lols

 

[bryanh]

I'm old school and retired and have not used wago connectors but for me, I can see they are quicker to install, but I can't see how having a spring holding down a cable connection for an extended time will hold, but we will see in years to come.

 

[Fleeting]

Thank you again everybody, because the MF connectors cannot guarantee to accommodate the cable size I am going to go with the 60A JB that has a capacity of 50mm2 per terminal and four screws per terminal together with strain reliefs. A substantial improvement over whats there and remember screws have been used in electrical circuits since the beginning! This may not be what the regs recommend but it is a pragmatic solution given what they recommend doesn't exist! Please don't turn this thread into another bun fight with the thought police lols

Why ask for advice if you are just going to ignore it and go for a non compliant solution but it is your property to burn down.

 

[johnb2713]

I'm old school and retired and have not used wago connectors but for me, I can see they are quicker to install, but I can't see how having a spring holding down a cable connection for an extended time will hold, but we will see in years to come.

At the risk of getting flamed, I can see an issue with the spring-loaded connectors 'v' screwed connector. The spring connector simply touches the conductor and that's it. A screw connector does two important things in my view, the rotation of the screw against the copper cleans it and makes a good connection, the crush that occurs provides a bigger contact area. May not meet the modern day regulations but it worked for years in the steelworks without issues.
I'm sure all of the people who uphold the regulations 100% will correct me Shortly after they've finished checking their tyre pressure, tread depth, tyre condition and cleaned their lights before their daily journey off to create a crust.

 

[Badger]

Or old fashioned crimping and crimping tool

 

[binky]

I'm old school and retired and have not used wago connectors but for me, I can see they are quicker to install, but I can't see how having a spring holding down a cable connection for an extended time will hold, but we will see in years to come.

Wagos have been around far longer than people think, I was using them as an apprentice in my factory days. They are relatively new to the electrical trade, but well tried and tested elsewhere.

 

[fourtytwo]

Why ask for advice if you are just going to ignore it and go for a non compliant solution but it is your property to burn down.

What a stupid comment, if you have nothing sensible to contribute, don't post!

 

[Mike P]

I agree with John. The input terminals on Consumer units use exactly that method.

 

[binky]

I agree with John. The input terminals on Consumer units use exactly that method.

but they are accessible and not hidden under floorboards.

To be frank, I've only ever encountered one burn't out JB, but it had tried to set fire to the joist it was screwed to. The spring loading of Wagos keeps a constant pressure on the cable, and is vibration proof, not that vibration is much of a concern in domestic properties. All screw joints suffer from 'cold plastic flow' of the copper, this is the mechanism whereby the copper effectively stress relives itself and moves away from the point of pressure, ie the screw terminal. If you do the screw terminal up tight enough, it's not an issue, if you don't then it can leave a loose joint. Next time you are terminating a cable under a screw, go back over the screws half an hour later, and see how much they can be retightened. It's the reason EICRs have the bit about checking all terminations are tight in a CU whilst performing an inspection.

 

[johnb2713]

but they are accessible and not hidden under floorboards.

I agree but in real practical terms would you not agree that it would be highly unlikely to cause a fire or have any issues at all? Me personally, I'd rather take my chance with screwed terminals than spring loaded Wago one although I have used the Wago's a lot on my commercial premises shop lighting.

 

[fourtytwo]

The result, the clamp screws are not long enough for two cables but they are M3 so easily rectified. Whatever the pro's n con's one hellava lot better than what was there before!
And no I did not botch up the adjacent joist nor leave the bit of chopped off cable (the joys of living in a much modified old house).

 

[andy_spark]

I agree with John. The input terminals on Consumer units use exactly that method.

I once sub contracted to a company whose foreman told me that any joins in wires shouldn't be made with a screw terminal but instead crimped, because screw connections were unsafe.
I asked how we were meant to carry on connecting switches and sockets, I didn't get an answer...

 

[Fleeting]

The result, the clamp screws are not long enough for two cables but they are M3 so easily rectified. Whatever the pro's n con's one hellava lot better than what was there before!
And no I did not botch up the adjacent joist nor leave the bit of chopped off cable (the joys of living in a much modified old house).
View attachment 14006

You have done a neat job there non compliant nonetheless but your house so your loss. I might suggest after a few days you tighten the screws again and drip some Loctite to the threads.