D.I.Y. sparks

[Apache]

I always tell them that I can only do a pir. They always agree as they have no choice. The stupid thing is sometimes the local council acept it . There is no breach of contract. As a fully NICEIC approved contractor who has all his qualification and having been in the job for nearly 30years including a full apprenticeship and years working for MANWEB I know what I am talking about. I am not some DIY spark who sits round on his elbows apache!

If customer requests a certificate to satisfy council and you give a PIR which doesn't, you've not done the work that was requested.

Clearly

BTW DON'T PM ME ABOUT THESE THINGS POST IN THE FORUM!

 

[Andy™]

If customer requests a certificate to satisfy council and you give a PIR which doesn't, you've not done the work that was requested. Clearly

BTW DON'T PM ME ABOUT THESE THINGS POST IN THE FORUM!

i agree with apache. if they have asked for an EIC, and you gave them a PIR, then you have not done what was requested. if you do give PIR to satisfy council, make sure you have it in writing, signed by customer, that you cannot issue an EIC and will only issue a PIR. then they have no comeback

 

[jamer]

Is it true that even if you're undertaking minor work, eg an addition to an existing ring, you are to some degree accepting responsibility for the whole circuit and therefore someone elses work. Sounds like a lot of sleepless nights to me. Pray

 

[Jono Pashley]

You have a responsibility to maintain that the installation isnt any more dangerous than when you started. Obviously if you test and document the results you are covering yourself to some extent.

 

[Andy™]

Is it true that even if you're undertaking minor work, eg an addition to an existing ring, you are to some degree accepting responsibility for the whole circuit and therefore someone elses work. Sounds like a lot of sleepless nights to me. Pray

you are responsible for your own work. but you must make sure main earthing is adequate etc. you do not have to bring circuit to 17th ed if you work on it, but the part you install must be

 

[dougal]

Thanks for the advice, but the bottom line is that non reg sparks should not be doing the work and should be prosecuted under part p. All you can give them is a pir.

non reg sparks can do the work and issue a EIC as per BS7671 but must go through BC. I am doing this on a full rewire to count as my big job for assessment.

I have had a meeting with BC and they are more than happy with this.

Building control do not necessarily know much about electrics and just seem to want someone to take responsibility for it.

as for D.I.Yers it becomes a nightmare as a spark will not issue an EIC when they have not done the work

 

[elvis]

a women i know has just purchased a 2 bed house, and asks me to " check the electrics" so i say no probs, will be

 

[Andy™]

some people just expect the job done for nothing.

had a call from someone the other week asking for a price for a PIR on a 4 bed house. he was shocked by 'probably

 

[green-hornet]

I may be controversial here and would expect some flak from people who at the end of the day wish to put bread on the table.

Firstly an Electrical Installation certificate is a legal document, by signing such a document you become legally liable for its contents, for the life of such documents.

You must fill in such documents as accurately as is possible.

The more documents registered electricians complete on behalf of cowboys the greater the amount of cowboys we get.

If anything bad ever happened (unlikely) but possible your in deep Shhheeeeeet whilst the cowboy looks for another sucker to sign off his work.

So in summing up sign off some one elses work and you deserve everything you get.

Go to the LBC and tell them fred who likes bob likes to think he is an electrician and wants you to sign it off because he can pay you peanuts, because at the end of the day he really does think you are a monkey.

 

[Zeespark]

Just a point Green (not meaning to sound like Steptoe here) but an EIC is not actually a legally binding document. This is because BS7671:2008 isnt. But I would always supply one just as a record of tests that I may need to fall back on to prove compliance with EAWR.

AndyGuiness Drink

 

[Gforce]

Im confused here-whilst i realise bs7671 isnt statutory-supposedly part p is a legal requirment enforceable by law-so what gives LOL

 

[Andy™]

part P says wiring must be safe... the best way of proving this is by sticking to 7671

7671 is not legal, just full of recommendations, but it can be used in court as evidence if you do something wrong

 

[Evans Electric]

" i'll touch the electrics if i want !! "

click as my girlie put the phone down !!!!!!!

unbelievable..

i know who he is ,,,,,i might follow him around pick up some work

It is unbelievable but again , what is the point of Part P with people like this who just ignore it all!!

Deke

 

[Mark2spark]

Quite a few points raised here.

Firstly it might not be notifiable for the OP's customers dad to add a few sockets if they are extending. The requirement for 'reasonable provision' a la Part P still sticks, but the chances of anything happening about that in this scenario is zilch.

Signing off others work.

Well, you can't. Or shouldn't anyway. So, you just make it clear that a PIR is all that you can do.

For one of those I charge a similar amount to what I would have charged the builder to do the install anyway... so eventually the cowboys/unregistered installers will fall by the wayside as it won't be economical to employ them.

Signing an EIC/legal document.

There's a clash here... how can one sign a EIC for a fuse board change if one didn't install the original wiring/installation?

 

[green-hornet]

I have to agree with all posts on this subject, you are quite right it is not a legal document which is what I said in my post and that was misleading.

However by signing such a document you are held over a barrel for anything that goes wrong. For instance I rewired a kitchen for a client but the lighting had been done by her builders, I completed a electrical inspection certificate for my works and made sure each segment was filled and all points I touched or altered was on the certificate.

3 months later I get a call because the kitchen lighting was playing up and there was a buzz from the lights when she tried to dim them.

I told her I never fitted the lights, she said yes you did its in your certificate that you rewired them. Really? I said check again, I never say I did something if I never did. However if you want I will come and sort out the problem if you want.

In the meantime check the wattage of the dimmer and the amount of lights you have to dim, you may have a problem in that your trying to dim more than your dimmer will allow.

Gladly I never heard anything more from her but could you imagine the problems I would have had trying to sort out some other persons work just because I agreed to sign it off.

 

[batty]

Quite a few points raised here.Firstly it might not be notifiable for the OP's customers dad to add a few sockets if they are extending. The requirement for 'reasonable provision' a la Part P still sticks, but the chances of anything happening about that in this scenario is zilch.

Signing off others work.

Well, you can't. Or shouldn't anyway. So, you just make it clear that a PIR is all that you can do.

For one of those I charge a similar amount to what I would have charged the builder to do the install anyway... so eventually the cowboys/unregistered installers will fall by the wayside as it won't be economical to employ them.

Signing an EIC/legal document.

There's a clash here... how can one sign a EIC for a fuse board change if one didn't install the original wiring/installation?

You are only signing to say that the earth fault loop for the different protective device installed will disconnect supply if there is a fault on that circuit.

Batty

 

[elvis]

In Scotland... no Part P here... but I thought that was supposed to be the whole point to Part P. The regs are the regs and are not legally binding but are widely accepted as a guide to good working practices and as such could be cited in a court blah, blah, blah...

But I thought Part P was the Law (sorry got a bit Judge Dredd there!) seriously though I thought Part P was supposed to be the link between the regs and the law that everyone says has been missing??

In my opinion the vast majority of Building Controllers (in my area anyway) couldnae care less about what certificate is submitted or who has signed it. They want to see a signed electrical certificate of some sort ... check the box on their list and sign that building warrant off into the 'look how many I've done this week boss' pile.

We should stick to our guns though, if someone asks you to 'check the electrics' and you have had no part in any new (or otherwise) installation all you can do is a PIR!

And the rest is between your local building control and the applicant on the planning application?

 

[elvis]

And another thing!

Why is a PIR not acceptable anyway? (And this may be a Part P thing) surely a proper PIR constitutes a full test of the entire electrical installation regardless of who has done the original installation or any additions...

elvis is most definately in the building!

?:-/

 

[Andy™]

Is law

 

[elvis]

Judge Andy speaks!! B-)