Dangerous Workmanship - Help!

[Paul the Tearoom]

I own a tea room and last year paid a builder to completely refurb a retail unit for that purpose. He, in turn, employed a properly qualified electrician to carry out a complete rewire on the premises. Within a couple of weeks of the work being finished both of my new instantaneous water heaters (that I supplied) apparently blew up! I couldn't afford to get them looked at then, so I have had no hot water at any of my 3 sinks since last summer. Jump forward to last December and it was freezing, so the over-door heater was switched on for the first time. Within days there was a foul "fishy" smell filling the tea room and the on/off switch to the door heater had an oily brown liquid leaking from it, as well as being extremely hot.

I rang the builder on 22nd January and he said that either he or the electrician or both of them would ring me the next day - they didn't. I rang the builder again on 4th January and he said he would chase it up. When I hadn't heard by 9th January I got a highly recommended electrician to inspect the electrics and he was horrified. Both of the instantaneous water heaters were wired using 1mm cable, yet the heaters were both 10.8 Kw each. Not surprisingly, the wiring had melted and short circuited. The inspector said that this type of mistake should not have been made by a qualified electrician, and went on to highlight other serious concerns with the electrical work.

Unexpectedly, the original electrician turned up on 11th January and didn't appear overly concerned. He said that there were no instructions with the heaters, so he assumed that they were a couple of Kw each. In other words he took a gamble. He spent a couple of hours on the premises and replaced about 1 metre of cable with 2.5mm cable to one heater, and didn't look at the other one, nor the door heater. I'll be back he said - and that was the last I saw or heard from him.

So now I'm stuck. First and foremost I want my tea room made safe urgently so that I don't go home at night worrying if the tea room will still be there in the morning. Unfortunately, no one will help me urgently. Elecsa and FMB both want a complaint in writing, then they'll consider if they'll take it up, then they'll give the contractor/electrician several weeks to sort it out. How is that going to solve my problem?

Has anyone got any suggestions how I can proceed from here, but quickly.

 

[Andy™]

most heaters like that are 2-3kw, so even if he did take a gamble, it would probably be undersized anyway. 10kw on 1mm was never going to work. did he use the correct breaker for the 1mm (which should have tripped and protected the circuit) or a one suitale for the heater (which would melt the cable)?. instructions or not, its usually on a sticker on the unit anyway

what agreements / contracts did you have with him?

best thing you could do would be get someone to do an electrical installation condition report so see what he has done. from there you can either get someone else to do the necessary repairs, or tell the original builder / electrician to sort it at their expense (but see above, might not be so straight forward). unless you give the original spark a chance to fix it first, then you wouldnt be able to take him to court to get any costs back

 

[ruston]

I find it hard to believe even in the absence of instructions that there was no rating plates on your presumably new equipment.

 A few simple tests would of established the load anyway if he knew what he was about or cared.

 

[ProDave]

The water heater issue. Most under sink water heaters are 2KW or 3KW so 2.5mm cable on a 16A mcb would be quite normal, but never 1mm.  If they really were 10KW then of course a MUCH bigger cable would have been needed but they must have come with instructions stating their eating. Do you have the make and model number of these water heaters?

The fan heater switch may not have been his fault. Assuming he had wired that with the correct cable and correct switch, it could have just been a faulty switch. On the other hand that might also be 1mm cable and a 6A light switch.

You have done the right thing and given the original firm a chance to rectify the problems and they have failed. So now I would get someone else to fix it properly, pay him, and then submit that bill to the original builder (together with a report from the repairing electrician) stating if they do not pay it you will take it to the small claims court.

 

[binky]

9.5kW is not that unusual - basically it's a shower in a different shaped box

 

[Doc Hudson]

I am getting the feeling that a few significant facts may have been missed out of this story. Why would anyone wait since last summer before pursing the builder / electrician to come and have a look at the problem with their work? If some heater(s) had apparently blown up I would be onto either the installer or supplier rather sharpish to make sure I get free repairs within any manufactures 12month warranty period.  What happened to the installation instructions that came with the new heaters you supplied? A copy of those would prove easily that the person who installed them was negligent. Or were they not new items? something you had acquired secondhand?

According to your description (although some dates do appear out of synch in the second paragraph), you rang the original contractor, but because he didn't respond fast enough you rang another electrician who came and did some inspections, after which the original one did arrive.  This could muddy the water a bit as the original guy could claim your second guy had altered some of his installation work and as such he was no longer responsible for all of it.

Do you have written contracts for any of this work and the electrical certificates that were issued last year when they originally finished? The fact that you waited so long after the alleged blowing up problem, may possible not bode well for your claim against the original contractor.  You say Elecsa etc. want the complaint in writing and if there is negligence to allow the contractor chance to rectify his mistake. This is the perfectly right and correct approach to give both sides of a complaint a chance to defend their side of the story. Legally they need to do it, and if you choose not to allow him to put right any mistakes they he has very strong grounds to avoid paying you any compensation or rectifying work at his own expense.

The only way you can proceed quickly is to pay someone else, over the odds, to adjust their diary so they come and do your work ahead of other pre booked jobs. Any electrician who is genuinely any good will be booked up well ahead. if you find someone who can come tomorrow they are more likely another rouge electrician who may be worse than the first. 

Doc H.

 

[Paul the Tearoom]

Why would anyone wait since last summer before pursing the builder / electrician to come and have a look at the problem with their work?   I run a charitable tea room and money is tight. As soon as the water heaters apparently blew up I phoned the manufacturer, Redring. They said they would send one of their engineers out to inspect and repair/replace the heaters on condition that the correct taps had been fitted (1/4 turn ceramic taps) and that it had been correctly installed. Each heater had to have a supply cable of 10 mm², a 45 amp isolating switch and 45 amp MCB. If any of these conditions were not met I would have invalidated the warranties and be responsible for the cost of the engineer’s visit. As I couldn’t guarantee that I had met all of these conditions I took the decision to not risk the charity’s money by getting Redring to inspect the heaters. The problem wasn’t urgent at the time (I thought) it just meant that we had the inconvenience of having no hot water.

What happened to the installation instructions that came with the new heaters you supplied? A copy of those would prove easily that the person who installed them was negligent. Or were they not new items? something you had acquired secondhand?  The installation instructions were used by the builder to fit the water heaters to the wall and plumb them in, so if they were lost it happened between the builder and electrician. A copy of the instructions can be found by googling “redring powerstream eco instructions”. It is the top result for that search. The manual covers the only two models that are made under that name. There is a 9.5 Kw model and a 10.8 Kw model (mine). The water heaters were newly purchased from a national supplier.

According to your description (although some dates do appear out of synch in the second paragraph).  My first contact with the builder was on 22nd December 2017, not January! I rang the builder on 22nd December 2017 when the switch to the over-door heater was apparently melting and I was getting suspicious about the cause of the heaters apparently blowing up. I photographed everything and took it to a national electrical wholesaler for their opinion – they told me to ring the builder urgently, so I did. No one rang me back the next day (like he said he would). The builder eventually returned my call on 4th January 2018, 13 days later. On 8th January when still nothing had happened I arranged for an independent inspection of the obvious faults the next day. At this point the hidden horrors were discovered. No alterations or remedial work was carried out. While I was planning my next move the original electrician turned up unannounced 20 days after my complaint was made.

Do you have written contracts for any of this work and the electrical certificates that were issued last year when they originally finished?  Yes, and yes. The electrical certificates show that he wired the water heaters with 1mm cable.

Elecsa etc. want the complaint in writing and if there is negligence to allow the contractor chance to rectify his mistake. Normally I would agree with this principle, however this is a dangerous problem that needs rectifying urgently. So far I have waited 34 days. Surely enough is enough?

It seems unfair to me that I should allow someone I have little trust in to have another stab at getting things right. We still have no heat in the tea room and no hot water at all.

Photos to follow.

 

[Andy™]

can you post a copy of the installation cert with personal details removed?

 

[Kurt]

A water heater on 1mm cable is quite frankly ridiculous. Someone must have connected the heater up, even if it was not there at the time of the wiring. I am trying to imagine why any electrician, knowing there is to be a water heater, would wire one in 1mm cable. Even if he thought hey its on a FSU and 13 amps, happy days, its just daft. 

The water heater should NEVER have been connected and i would have expected the fuse to blow and or breaker to trip almost immediately.

Your water heaters may well be functional but you wont know until the proper sized supply is installed.

 

[Sharpend]

So given that the works appears to be incorrect and given that you have a report by an independent (registered?) spark, I would draft an email letter of complaint explain that it are a charity and have a duty of responsibility to users and that given what the independent and your experience of builder/spark has provided you with, you are not comfortable with the concept of permitting the original spark to work in the premise without an Elecsa Assessor present. Fill I. Details as you see fit. Send the letter not to the office jockeys at elecsa but direct to the CEO of Elecsa/certsure

Ms Emma ClancyChief Executive

Email [email protected]

Explain that you are disgusted that an alleged reputable authority permits such substandard workmanship etc 

sit and wait for reply. 

 

[Andy™]

do elecsa cover commercial stuff now? if not, then elecsa could say they have nothing to do with it and only passed his as 'competent' to do domestic and he's on his own for commercial

 

[Sharpend]

That’s a fair point Andy, but then would Elecsa risk the comeback of this one Individual and given that a charity is involved and newspapers love a charity!  

 

[Murdoch]

So given that the works appears to be incorrect and given that you have a report by an independent (registered?) spark, I would draft an email letter of complaint explain that it are a charity and have a duty of responsibility to users and that given what the independent and your experience of builder/spark has provided you with, you are not comfortable with the concept of permitting the original spark to work in the premise without an Elecsa Assessor present. Fill I. Details as you see fit. Send the letter not to the office jockeys at elecsa but direct to the CEO of Elecsa/certsure

Ms Emma ClancyChief Executive

Email [email protected]

Explain that you are disgusted that an alleged reputable authority permits such substandard workmanship etc 

sit and wait for reply. 

he might have to wait a long time ............................

 

[Sharpend]

Why is she on maternity leave? Kerch have you..........

 

[Murdoch]

Why is she on maternity leave? Kerch have you..........

ha ha ................ I can't imagine that the NICEIC will take a complaint seriously .................. unless its about somebody using their logo whilst not being a paid up member!

 

[Andy™]

That’s a fair point Andy, but then would Elecsa risk the comeback of this one Individual and given that a charity is involved and newspapers love a charity!  

well they must have at some point passed him as competent, cant be damaging their reputation by passing incompetent 'electricians' so prob easier for they to say he's not covered for commercial work

 

[Sharpend]

well they must have at some point passed him as competent, cant be damaging their reputation by passing incompetent 'electricians' so prob easier for they to say he's not covered for commercial work

This is true but I can’t help somehow feeling that the right ambulance chaser will do a work of art of a play on words and meanings, perhaps this is what our industry needs and good solicitor to challenge it? 

 

[Paul the Tearoom]

This is the certification (my wife drove to the tea room to get it).

 

[apprentice87]

If it was me, i would take photos and pay someone else to fix it. Then sue the original builder/electrician whoever.

I could not give a **** what elecsa or anyone else think. They may well find that post Grenfell, the courts take a dim view of "electricians", especially ones "approved" by them, doing work like that..

One sniff of a court case like that and i think you might find Elecsa, NICEIC, whoever issuing statements to the effect that "approval" by them means nothing and is not to be relied on..

How funny would that be...

john..

 

[Paul the Tearoom]

Oops, over the limit!