DIY "rewire" loophole?

[sonofabrit]

Hi all,
House I am due to complete on will need a new consumer unit, which will have a Electrician come round to replace. Also, it has minimal sockets around the house for a modern family. From what I researched (but will follow up with local electricians in my area), is that pretty much no-one wants to hook up someone elses first fix work, which I understand, but is frustrating.


Just looking to bounce an idea that I think is legitmate? As far as I know, a DIY'er can't run a new circuit, or do electrics within a bathroom, however, I do believe they can extend a exisiting circuit as much as they want. Either with a spured fuse and off you go, or breaking into ring main and then returning back to where you started to complete it again.


Is there anything in the regs stopping me from "rewiring" the house if I can find the starting socket in the up/down socket circuits, adding all new sockets next to the originals + additional where neeed to and returning back to the original socket, leaving the original circuit in tact as far as the consumer unit is concerned? Apart from the excess dead cable in walls (floor joist side would remove) is there anything wrong with this?


Thanks in advance.
John

 

[Murdoch]

Any half decent spark will notice when testing AND remember the EIC issued for the CU change does not cover any other changes to the installation. And of Course the Part P will only state the CU change too....

What do you think you would achieve?

 

[sonofabrit]

Thanks for the reply Murdoch.

Would it matter if the electrican noticed it or not? If the circuits are complete with the original feed going back to the CU is "by the book" should be no issues with his testing?

"What do you think you would achieve?"
Basically a 99% (apart from first socket > to CU) new rewire that I can do myself without Regs involved.

 

[Andy™]

As far as I know, a DIY'er can't run a new circuit, or do electrics within a bathroom, however, I do believe they can extend a exisiting circuit as much as they want.

there is no law stating you can't DIY. regardless of DIY or electrician, standards & building regs still need to be followed

Replacing a damaged cable etc then arguably no need to any EIC / MWC. as soon as you modify, i.e install a new socket, then EIC / MWC will be required by BS7671. and you'll also need to comply with the requirements of part P (which technically means you should be installing to a well expired version of BS7671, since no one bothered to keep approved document P updated)

either way, you're not getting a 99% rewire without regs and id say you have a 100% chance of your work not being to standard

 

[sonofabrit]

Thanks Andy. I am all for following the regs as required. From my understanding. "
In accordance with Paragraph 2.5 of the 2013 Approved Document for use in England, where electrical work is carried out in a dwelling or its surroundings, notification must be provided for the following:

• installation of a new circuit,
• replacing a consumer unit, or
• an addition or alteration to an existing circuit in a special location.

None of my rewire work would include any of the above. No new circuits, replacing of CU (will be done by electrician) Or any work in special locations (bathroom, kitchen (not putting in or changing cooker feed)

Is there a section that I am mis reading or understanding?

Thanks

 

[Andy™]

part p covers all electrical work inside a house, just not all work is notifiable

you'll also need to comply with requirements of BS7671

 

[Murdoch]

The OP's best bet would be to find a spark who would allow him to do supervised work ........ so good luck with that

 

[binky]

Thanks Andy. I am all for following the regs as required. From my understanding. "
In accordance with Paragraph 2.5 of the 2013 Approved Document for use in England, where electrical work is carried out in a dwelling or its surroundings, notification must be provided for the following:

• installation of a new circuit,
• replacing a consumer unit, or
• an addition or alteration to an existing circuit in a special location.

None of my rewire work would include any of the above. No new circuits, replacing of CU (will be done by electrician) Or any work in special locations (bathroom, kitchen (not putting in or changing cooker feed)

Is there a section that I am mis reading or understanding?

Thanks

You will be altering the electrical characteristics of the circuits, and that is notifiable work.

Your best bet is to get an electrician on board, before commencing works, who is happy to let you do the 'donkey work' like pulling cables to their plan and under their instruction. I've done this for a few customers, but, even that has proved troublesome sometimes, because there's so many things you don't know, like cables next to pipes, depth of channels in walls, data cables next to mains cables, and a plethora of other small details that constitute a good installation.

Anyone who has ever asked me to sign off a job after doing a lot of the work has been told to Foxtrot Oscar! As a professional electrical, I am not prepared to put my name and reputation to DIY work, for it would be me who gets put in.front of a judge...

Our work may look easy enough, but, if you have ever seen the results of say DIY bottox injections, you will understand where I'm coming from.

 

[SPECIAL LOCATION]

Is there anything in the regs stopping me from "rewiring" the house if I can find the starting socket in the up/down socket circuits, adding all new sockets next to the originals + additional where neeed to and returning back to the original socket, leaving the original circuit in tact as far as the consumer unit is concerned? Apart from the excess dead cable in walls (floor joist side would remove) is there anything wrong with this?

While BS7671 wiring regulations are non-statutory, (i.e. a homeowner cannot be directly prosecuted for ignoring them), the wiring regulations themselves do not state that DIY electrical work should be undertaken.

In fact they DO state that ALL work should be undertaken by skilled or instructed persons..
and before reenergising any alterations, inspection and testing by skilled persons competent to verify compliance with BS7671, should be done and appropriate electrical certificates issued..

Anyone can join wires up and make accessories work, However BS7671 compliance is about ensuring every circuit alteration will fail safe in the event of a fault, by using correct materials and protective devices to ensure that the supply is disconnected automatically fast enough to prevent injury/damage to people property and livestock.
(remembering that electricity can kill a healthy adult in less than a second).

I am unclear from your proposal how the design, construction, inspection & testing of your alteration(s) will be certified?
and who will be signing their name to the declaration box on the electrical certificate(s) issued?

To try and put some of the above points into context here are a few of the relevant wiring regs quoted from BS7671:

132.16 No addition or alteration, temporary or permanent, shall be made to an existing installation, unless it has been ascertained that the rating and the condition of any existing equipment, including that of the distributor, will be adequate for the altered circumstances. Furthermore, the earthing and bonding arrangements if necessary for the protective measures applied for the safety of the addition or alteration shall be adequate.

134.1.1 Good workmanship by one or more skilled or instructed persons and proper materials shall be used in the erection of the electrical installation.

134.2.1 During the erection and upon completion of an installation or an addition or alteration to an installation, and before it is put into service, appropriate inspection and testing shall be carried out by one or more skilled persons competent to verify that the requirements of BS7671 have been met. Appropriate certification shall be issued in accordance with Chapter 64.

644.1 Except where Regulation 644.4.210 applies, upon completion of the verification of a new installation or an addition or alteration to an existing installation, including the replacement of a distribution board or consumer unit, an electrical installation certificate based on the model given in appendix 6 shall be issued to the person ordering the work.

644.4.201 Where electrical installation work does not include the provision of a new circuit or replacement of a distribution board or consumer unit, a minor electrical installation works certificate, based on the model given in appendix 6, may be provided for each circuit that has been added to or altered as an alternative to an electrical installation certificate.

to name but a few... Others can be found here.
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Requirements-Electrical-Installations-Regulations-Eighteenth/dp/1839532181/

 

[Andy1733]

Whilst on the subject of building regs and electrical work. I'm in the process of building my own extension.
On the last BI visit I commented "do you still need a copy of the electrical certificate to sign off the extension" (they have in the past)
Nope, regs have changed and we no longer need to see the electrics have been installed correctly (against our better judgment). Were his comments.

Wtf. Surly that is a important part of the building regs but apparently not

 

[Andy™]

requirements seems to vary wildly between different councils

maybe the end of part p is coming?

 

[mort2376]

They don't need to see it as under part p if it's new circuits it should be notifiable anyway. In theory it cuts down on being double checked, but is that a good thing ????

 

[Andy™]

They don't need to see it as under part p if it's new circuits it should be notifiable anyway. In theory it cuts down on being double checked, but is that a good thing ????

notifiable doesn't mean that the person doing the works is the one doing the notification. in many circumstances yes however if there is already planning permission and LABC involved (i.e an extension), then many also include electrical as part of the overall job, just give LABC a copy of the EIC and let them deal with it

 

[binky]

Whilst on the subject of building regs and electrical work. I'm in the process of building my own extension.
On the last BI visit I commented "do you still need a copy of the electrical certificate to sign off the extension" (they have in the past)
Nope, regs have changed and we no longer need to see the electrics have been installed correctly (against our better judgment). Were his comments.

Wtf. Surly that is a important part of the building regs but apparently not

Licence for builders to bodge electrics..

 

[BorisJ]

The so called IET regs are non statuary.

 

[Old Dog]

The IET regs are non statutory but can be used in Court to prove negligence

 

[UNG]

requirements seems to vary wildly between different councils

maybe the end of part p is coming?

Part P has only benefitted HMRC and the only prosecutions I have heard of under Part P was by HMRC the councils don't seem to be interested as it is just another cost to them to police it and with budgets being reduced Part P is not a priority

 

[Murdoch]

Part P is and has been a monumental failure.

 

[Andy™]

The IET regs are non statutory but can be used in Court to prove negligence

there has been cases where BS7671 has been outright dismissed

 

[surrey bloke]

sorry to get on this conversation but could the work be done on a building control notice ??
TPC is last time I looked around 500 ish


Also the op needs to understand the importance of testing.