Do I Stick My Nose In Or Leave Them To It?

[Blue Duck]

Got some friends having a large shed / log cabin thing built at the bottom of their garden (20m) its to have 3 rooms, a utility room, an office and a playroom it is also is to have some kind of heating.

They found the guy off trusted trader I think he's Romanian and he's doing the whole thing for £1500 So I doubt he's doing the electrics right?

I also doubt they have modern electrics?

What would you do? they have a young child and a track record of being stung by Eastern European builders....

???

 

[sprocketflup]

Leave em to it, if they have a track record of being stung by Eastern European traders youd think theyd have learnt by now

 

[Ferg]

This is a tricky one as it can look like you are touting for business.

If they are friends and have a history of being stung perhaps offering to keep an eye on electrical proceedings for their peace of mind.

If Part P applies where you live ask them to check he is in fact registered etc.

I don't envy you on this one as working for or with friends and family can get interesting especially if you disagree with them over something.

If you think that they won't care and cost is the only consideration then probably best, as you said, to keep your nose out.

If it was me I would offer advice etc and be prepared to either get stuck in or be ignored.

 

[Blue Duck]

They have no clue about these things: she's a nurse and he does something in marketing the last time they had the poles in & they never put a dpc in and all the plaster fell off the walls :slap

I guess they think EU builders are just like English ones but drink less tea and turn up on time?

This time it envolves electrickery which could go bang?

Ferg,

jumped ship have we?

I'm not working for them Don't do work for friends unless it's an emergency or they are doing me a favour in return as money tends to mess things up.

 

[Ferg]

Ferg,

jumped ship have we?

No ship jumping, just spreading my  rubbish posts around a bit

 

[Blue Duck]

Glad to see you here, tis a nice place to be

 

[Richard-the-Ninth]

My 2p worth.

Leave them to it.

If you do "poke your nose in" chances are they will see it as (as has been said) you touting for business, OR "he doesn't like it that other people are better than him" (Meaning you Blue Duck)

Hard that it will be, you have to sit this one out and even when its finished, say something very small ONLY if your opinion is asked.

 

[Blue Duck]

Yeah I kinda thought I should keep my nose out but also felt that the deal was to good to be true and the electric s are going to be a lash up but ya never know???

Just wait for the call when it all goes bang!

 

[SPECIAL LOCATION]

I Presume these friends also know you?

so either..

a) They also know what job you do??

If yes then they have chosen not to ask your advice for a reason personal to them... 

so don't interfere with their decisions about who does what to what standard in their home...

or..

b) They don't know what trade you are in??

In which case it is perfectly normal to raise to a point in conversation

and point out a few of your concerns about safety and standards etc..

and offer your services to them should they want it.. 

(slightly off topic but ref comment in post #4)

Additionally there is nothing wrong with doing work for friends and/or family

providing you keep it all formal just as you would with any other customer...

Before I started self employment I read various books and this point came up a few times in the guides to running a small business..

If you start trying to run a two-tier charges structure and operating model for your jobs.... 

(close friends -vs- non friends)

it can become very messy when friends of friends ask for work from word of mouth recommendations..

they have been told by your friend you only charge £x.xx per hour...

but you then go and charge this friend of a friend £y.yy per hour!!

he thinks he's been ripped off....   so its best to keep your charges the same...

or you make a rod for your own back!

(had this problem myself many years ago, though I was doing someone a favour...

but they went and told their friends how good and cheap I was!!!!!)

IF you want to do special deals for close friends note it down as a discount..

So they still know what your normal hourly rate is and that they have had a reduction.

opcorn

 

[Pete10001]

Met a few people like your friend, leave em to it, pay peanuts you get monkeys, no racist slur intended

 

[Blue Duck]

I genuinely think that they have no idea what is involved. This a failing of part peed. They know what trade I'm and have asked to do work in the past but I have been too busy to take the work on.

I work for a company and they don’t have any problems with me using the van but I just don't have the time and would rather the weekends were for family

Like I said previously I only do emergencies for friends and don't ask for money in return.

Mixing friends and business is bad IMO.

On another note nice to see you special location I feel more reassured you are still here

 

[SPECIAL LOCATION]

 On another note nice to see you special location I feel more reassured you are still here

Still here?????

has it been that quiet while I've been on my hols...?

Got back early hours yesterday morning after 27days off with the caravan & tent & family down Cornwall...

I try to turn off from work & work related stuff when on hols... 

rather be..  Cycling, Walking, Kayaking, Swimming, Bar-B-Q'ing, Enjoying good food & drink with family & friends.. 

etc..  in some beautiful countryside, than worrying about connecting up wires and elecktwickery!

Guinness

(loads of unpacking tidying and putting away to do now though!!!)  :|

 

[apprentice87]

They are obviously intelligent people, but think they are clever employing these foreigners, [Huh, no english robber builders will rip me off, how hard can it be to stick bricks together and put plugs on]

Let them get on with it. Wait till the planning people get hold of them.... They will sort it all out!!!! They WILL need planning permission, [Oh yes they will] and the planners WILL grass you up to the building regs people, and it will all unravel from there....

john..

 

[Sharpend]

Agree 100% with specs here. :Applaud

 

[OnOff]

Friends & family, I wonder if they have a go themselves on the basis of they know someone who will come and sort it if it goes t!ts up? The fact too that they're getting the leccy work in the conservatory "package" etc and they think they're getting a deal. A little "mix" of calls I've had :

"I got some of that black shed cable from the boot fair, it's more than long enough, can I clip it to the fence. The hot tub bloke said either 4mm or 6mm should do?"

You tell them that actually the size needs to be calculated properly according to load, a trench needs to be dug, sand bed, back filled, cable tape etc. The next call you get goes:

"I had to go diagonal from the garage to the fence, the ground was so hard it's just under the turf, but I know it's there. I used a bottle of Fairy trying to get it through the (blue) water pipe.......................and it doesn't reach the shed now can you join it?"

You ask whether they measured it:

"I paced it out"

Or the wife's friends phone that their oven has packed up and you tell them it sounds like the element's gone. They then tell you that "the bloke is coming Monday to look at it". Why phone me?

The next time you talk to her she says "It wasn't the element it was the heating coil thingy".

By far the best are when they've actually done it and phone you all proud to tell you. In the back of their mind they're still unsure but end with "That'll be alright won't it?". My best mate fitted an isolator switch for his boiler........used a 45A cooker switch!

Did some work for a mate who's missus is oddly enough one of "those East Europeans" (Polish). She was standing there giving it "I didn't realise it would take this long!". Should have got one of her countrymen in then!  :lol:

 

[Blue Duck]

They are obviously intelligent people, but think they are clever employing these foreigners, [Huh, no english robber builders will rip me off, how hard can it be to stick bricks together and put plugs on]

Let them get on with it. Wait till the planning people get hold of them.... They will sort it all out!!!! They WILL need planning permission, [Oh yes they will] and the planners WILL grass you up to the building regs people, and it will all unravel from there....

john..

AFAIK as long as it's less than 4m high and doesn't have proper foundations then it's good to go?

Not sure why the planners would grass me up as I have nothing to do with it :lol:

 

[Evans Electric]

Got some friends having a large shed / log cabin thing built at the bottom of their garden (20m) its to have 3 rooms, a utility room, an office and a playroom it is also is to have some kind of heating.

They found the guy off trusted trader I think he's Romanian and he's doing the whole thing for £1500 So I doubt he's doing the electrics right?

I also doubt they have modern electrics?

What would you do? they have a young child and a track record of being stung by Eastern European builders....

???

Blimey Ducky ,  we just did electrics to something smilar this week .........  charged  over £1000 just for electrics .   I think theres a piccy somewhere.

 

[apprentice87]

Hi Blue Duck.

Planning is not your fault or problem, but it WILL be theirs!!! Basically, as long as it is more then 5 metres from the original house as build or extended prior to 1948, they can build over 50% percent of their garden, PROVIDED it does not go past the front line of the house or fronts a highway, OR is more than 3 meters hign with a flat roof or 4 meters with any other roof, BUT they will still have to have a "legal determination"

I know that their are a load of people that think if it had not got proper footings it will count as a "temporary structure" but trust me it will NOT.

There is a lot more to it than that too. Anyone interested can read here. This is the simplest guide i could find...http://www.planningportal.gov.uk/uploads/miniguides/outbuildings/Outbuildings.pdf

john

 

[Blue Duck]

87,

Thanks for the info I probably got that info from some build a grotto at the bottom of your garden rubbish that Mrs duck made me watch!

I know that planning fly planes round here to keep an eye on the natives stop them from tuning their garden shed into £1600 a month extra but some stuff still goes up.

One guy was building something horrible at the end of his garden and was putting in drainage and water we asked him what he was doing and stopped being able to speak English a few people complained and it's now just a shed but I've lost count of the amount of flues I've seen sticking out of garages!

Deke: that was my point the guys been there 2 weeks already it's hard to live in London on less than £100 a day so somethings got to give. Assuming that everything is up to date the materials should only be a few hundred quid add that to wood cement etc then there's little or no profit from the labour so he's basicly doing it for peanuts...

I'm going to keep my nose out focus on burying a storage container in my lawn and starting my own cannabis factory :lol:

 

[ProDave]

I know that their are a load of people that think if it had not got proper footings it will count as a "temporary structure" but trust me it will NOT.

There is a lot more to it than that too. Anyone interested can read here. This is the simplest guide i could find...http://www.planningportal.gov.uk/uploads/miniguides/outbuildings/Outbuildings.pdf

john

We have different rules in Scotland.

There's a planning note here that states what is and is not considered to be a "mobile home", 

A "mobile home" does not need to be on wheels, but must be capable of being transported in one or 2 sections, and must be under a prescribed size.

So any shed, that's built strong enough to be lifted with a crane onto a low loader, is considered a "mobile home" and exempt from building control.

Permitted development garden buildings can occupy up to half your garden area.

BUT as soon as you start putting sleeping accommodation in them, then they need planning permission.  I would have thought putting even just a toilet in a garden building would set the planners alarm bells ringing as once you have a toilet in there, what is to stop you putting a bed in there and sleeping in it?