dodgy eicr

[Manator]

That is not a report or test. Why and how do these people get away with doing this.

 

[professional]

They get away with such practices because the electrical industry has point-blank refused to accept any meaningful standards for an "electrician" - for purely commercial reasons.

This has left the public subject to VERY dodgey practices and attitudes. Say that a customer asks the man on the doorstep if they are a "qualified electrician" and they reply "I am a member of/registered with/ blah blah blah". If this individual were NOT a qualified installation electrician,  this would be regarded in a British Court of Law as witholding pertinent or providing false or misleading information for the purposes of proving services for monetary gain. 

So, misrepresentation or fraud?

Toss a coin to decide .... Especially the "five day wonders" with insurance policies whose T's and C's you do not meet and whose insurance underwriters will be laughing all of the way to the bank.

Ever wondered why the scams "walk away when it gets legal" -

a) Would YOU risk being cross-examined regarding the competence of "five day wonders" which may comprise over 80% of your membership?

b) Would you like to explain why a member has been "assessed" for several years running, yet upon independent questioning by an expert witness IN COURT appears to lack even the most basic, rudimentary knowledge of the work that they have supposedly been "independently approved"  :slap  to carry out?

The case for the prosecution rests ....  ]

 

[pewter]

I know a few time served JIB electricians who always work for large companies and on big sites who always just do a Zs as this guy has done when doing an EICR.   Zs, Insulation, RCD times, Ze, PFC, is all i usually see from others.

I often find the JIB site electricians who work for large firms are the worst, although i dont think i have met any of these electricians that have just done a 4-5 week course that gets quoted so often.

I personally normally always do R1+R2  as my tester (Megger MFT1730, yes they are all like this and im not going to buy another make to find out if other makes are equally as unreliable when testing Zs on RCD protected circuits)  is not as accurate doing a Zs on RCD protected circuits. As i measure Ze, Zs by calculation is fine.

 

[pewter]

They get away with such practices because the electrical industry has point-blank refused to accept any meaningful standards for an "electrician" - for purely commercial reasons.

This has left the public subject to VERY dodgey practices and attitudes. Say that a customer asks the man on the doorstep if they are a "qualified electrician" and they reply "I am a member of/registered with/ blah blah blah". If this individual were NOT a qualified installation electrician,  this would be regarded in a British Court of Law as witholding pertinent or providing false or misleading information for the purposes of proving services for monetary gain. 

So, misrepresentation or fraud?

Toss a coin to decide .... Especially the "five day wonders" with insurance policies whose T's and C's you do not meet and whose insurance underwriters will be laughing all of the way to the bank.

Ever wondered why the scams "walk away when it gets legal" -

a) Would YOU risk being cross-examined regarding the competence of "five day wonders" which may comprise over 80% of your membership?

b) Would you like to explain why a member has been "assessed" for several years running, yet upon independent questioning by an expert witness IN COURT appears to lack even the most basic, rudimentary knowledge of the work that they have supposedly been "independently approved"  :slap  to carry out?

The case for the prosecution rests ....  ]

what i find worse is all the plumbers calling themselves Engineers !!!!!!!!

Even british gas call there guys engineers, i have even heard the sky man called an engineer.

One local plumbing firm to me has called it self  (something) Engineering.   :slap

Perhaps we should call ourselves Doctors of Electric,  or proffessors of Power.   what about King of the electrons

 

[leesparkykent]

I know a few time served JIB electricians who always work for large companies and on big sites who always just do a Zs as this guy has done when doing an EICR.   Zs, Insulation, RCD times, Ze, PFC, is all i usually see from others.

I often find the JIB site electricians who work for large firms are the worst, although i dont think i have met any of these electricians that have just done a 4-5 week course that gets quoted so often.

I personally normally always do R1+R2  as my tester (Megger MFT1730, yes they are all like this and im not going to buy another make to find out if other makes are equally as unreliable when testing Zs on RCD protected circuits)  is not as accurate doing a Zs on RCD protected circuits. As i measure Ze, Zs by calculation is fine.

Only thing with this method is it wont pick up any high resistance through OCPD's or RCD's etc. You could always carry out the alternate Zs test by linking L-E at the furthest point.

 

[steptoe]

But, testing Zs alone does not prove CPC continuity, it could also be parallel paths,,,,,

Much better, imho, to do R1&R2 and calc Zs that way if required to. 

Btw, I do always do a Zs afterwards to compare and satisfy myself I have remade connections adequately. 

 

[pewter]

But, testing Zs alone does not prove CPC continuity, it could also be parallel paths,,,,,

Much better, imho, to do R1&R2 and calc Zs that way if required to. 

Btw, I do always do a Zs afterwards to compare and satisfy myself I have remade connections adequately. 

I do as you do Steps,

but i know plenty who are 'time served' who just do a few Zs.

 

[Essex1]

It is the of test RESULTS not test calculations. 

 

[leesparkykent]

But, testing Zs alone does not prove CPC continuity, it could also be parallel paths,,,,,

Much better, imho, to do R1&R2 and calc Zs that way if required to. 

Btw, I do always do a Zs afterwards to compare and satisfy myself I have remade connections adequately. 

Agreed and this is what I do. But as its an eicr there isn't a requirement to do R1 plus R2 even though it would be prudent. On new installations I either bypass the RCD or carry out the alternative method. Imo gives more of a true reflection than using the low current/no trip setting.

 

[steptoe]

Agreed and this is what I do. But as its an eicr there isn't a requirement to do R1 plus R2 even though it would be prudent. On new installations I either bypass the RCD or carry out the alternative method. Imo gives more of a true reflection than using the low current/no trip setting.

According to the certs the tester used, there most certainly is a requirement.

 

[leesparkykent]

I've never been a member of NAPIT but from my understanding R1 plus R2 is not deemed to be an essential test as part of EICR. Just to mention I think its prudent to peform this test though.

 

[steptoe]

Not disagreeing with you @leesparkykent

Just the certs say it must be done, or R2

We don't make the rules,

And the scams certainly don't understand them which is evident more often than not,

:C

 

[SLIPSHOD & SLAPDASH]

We are pricing up a huge job, where the customer paid a testing company £2500 +vat for a report and spec to give to electricians for estimating. Turned out to be a load  of pics taken on a phone with phrases like ' this fuse box needs replacing'  & no testing at all was done. They are now suing to get their money  back.

 

[gutterball]

on my last annual nic inspection the guy said i should calculate Zs not measure it as i shouldn't be working live.

 

[Andy™]

there is a difference between live working and live testing. maybe tell him he shouldnt plug anything in since its 'live working'

 

[Lusk]

on my last annual nic inspection the guy said i should calculate Zs not measure it as i shouldn't be working live.

What was his response when you asked him why do I need instruments that comply with GS38? :slap

 

[gutterball]

Asked him where i get the Ze to calculate without live testing and told by inquiry!!

Apparently live testing is an unnecessary risk.

 

[kerching]

Waste of time having insulated tools really...

no need for my VDE torque wrench and socket sets then :innocent

 

[Sharpend]

Waste of time having insulated tools really...

no need for my VDE torque wrench and socket sets then :innocent

Not really any good for testing if live unless they have a neon built in :innocent  

 

[pewter]

Asked him where i get the Ze to calculate without live testing and told by inquiry!!

Apparently live testing is an unnecessary risk.

If you get Ze by inquiry then you have to measure Zs.

If you measure Ze then you can calculate Zs.

GN3