dumb question about storage heaters ....

[Paul2129]

Probably a dumb question, I figure the idea of storage heaters is that they take energy on the night rate, and output the heat during the day, but how do my rather old fashioned storage heaters know when to start and stop taking power, is this something built into night meters ? and how can I confirm that this is working correctly ?

     I'm guessing the meter itself switches power on and off at the E7 times ?     

Thanks

Paul

 

[Murdoch]

for traditional storage heaters to work you either have a 2nd fuseboard connected to the storage heaters which is "live" during the E7 period only or timers on the the supplies to the storage heaters - the latter is less common and unreliable 

Difficult to know if its working except take a reading each day and see if the units consumed increases a lot ................. also the heaters should get warm! 

 

[Evans Electric]

Unless its been updated ,  Radio 4  used to transmit a signal at midnight  which changes the dual reading meters to start recording on the E7  dials .

Or a time switch  owned by the metering company  switches  over at midnight  to a storage heater board  which , during daytime ,  is dead . 

If you're not an electrician  its not a dumb question . 

 

[Paul2129]

"If you're not an electrician  its not a dumb question", believe me, there are a range of subjects for which I'm equipped to ask dumb questions about

the heaters do certainly get hot, obviously they're working in that sense, I was just curious as to how they are supposed to turn off, there are no timers on the supply to any of the heaters

 

[Murdoch]

"If you're not an electrician  its not a dumb question", believe me, there are a range of subjects for which I'm equipped to ask dumb questions about

the heaters do certainly get hot, obviously they're working in that sense, I was just curious as to how they are supposed to turn off, there are no timers on the supply to any of the heaters

How many fuseboards do you have?

 

[Paul2129]

this is in a shop, to be honest, it's it's tricky to get an accurate look, it's behind some display, which whilst it's immediately removable in an emergency, it's a right pain to take out and put back. I can find the relevant meter and follow the wires. I know that last year we were advised to get a modern consumer unit, I think we had some pretty old fashioned fuses still in there.

 

[Murdoch]

this is in a shop, to be honest, it's it's tricky to get an accurate look, it's behind some display, which whilst it's immediately removable in an emergency, it's a right pain to take out and put back. I can find the relevant meter and follow the wires. I know that last year we were advised to get a modern consumer unit, I think we had some pretty old fashioned fuses still in there.

What is the original question trying to achieve? 

 

[Paul2129]

I was just trying to understand how storage heaters turn on and off, I have some insanely large electric bills, and wondered if we're being billed for 24 hours of storage heaters or not ?

 

[Geoff1946]

Observe the operation of the heaters. They should feel hottest in the morning, following the off-peak charge. They should then slowly cool down until midnight. 

If they were continuously powered they would be hottest late in the day, when the ambient temperature has been higher.

 

[Paul2129]

Thanks, that makes some sense, and if they're still red hot near midnight, theres something wrong ?

 

[ProDave]

Thanks, that makes some sense, and if they're still red hot near midnight, theres something wrong ?

In a previous house that had a mechanical E7 time clock, it went wrong and I had the off peak rate from midnight all the way to 3PM.  After TWICE notifying the DNO and twice having them round to fix it (they didn't) I just enjoyed my new tariff.  I turned the storage heaters off at night, and turned them on before going to work so they were nicely warmed up for my return. at 5PM

 

[Paul2129]

I've done a little investigation, I've had a chat with one of the staff, who remembers turning a storage heater on one morning, and noticing that it heated up throughout the day, I've just turned one of the same heaters off, which is red hot currently, and in the semi darkness after we turned the lights off, there was a slight flash from the switch, I'm guessing it was still drawing power.

     I've followed the Live wire from the relevant meter, it goes into some small box, not a clue what it is, but it has no controls, it's about 3" square, a different wire exits, and goes up to couple of ancient looking electrical boxes, one with a huge on/off switch, and another with a chunky looking fuse. The wires then head up into the roof, and it appears that they head downward into each storage heater,

     I need to get an electrician to check this out now

Paul

 

[apprentice87]

Why not just buy a cheap clamp meter and stick it on the cables leading to the thing??

john..

 

[ProDave]

I've done a little investigation, I've had a chat with one of the staff, who remembers turning a storage heater on one morning, and noticing that it heated up throughout the day, I've just turned one of the same heaters off, which is red hot currently, and in the semi darkness after we turned the lights off, there was a slight flash from the switch, I'm guessing it was still drawing power.

     I've followed the Live wire from the relevant meter, it goes into some small box, not a clue what it is, but it has no controls, it's about 3" square, a different wire exits, and goes up to couple of ancient looking electrical boxes, one with a huge on/off switch, and another with a chunky looking fuse. The wires then head up into the roof, and it appears that they head downward into each storage heater,

     I need to get an electrician to check this out now

Paul

The small square box sounds like a "henley block" just a connector.

Can you post a picture?

More important is n not your fuse box, bur where it is fed from, in particular the wiring between the electricity meter and the fuse box.

Really old installations will have a mechanical time clock, usually with a clear plastic cover.  More recent ones will have a bog black box called a "Radio Teleswitch"  Band up to date installs have a dual rate electricity meter with the radio teleswitch built in.

If you just have a single rate meter and not form ot time switch then you don't have E7.

At the risk of asking a silly question, are you sure these are storage heaters?

 

[Paul2129]

Hi Dave, I can try and get a photo, but we'll have to remove some display to make more sense of it, it's a fair jumble of probably current and unused old bits and pieces. The wiring between the electric meter and the fuse box, is either new or was inspected recently, as new smart meters were fitted. There's a mechanical time clock in that vague area, but I'm not convinced it's working, or connected to anything, I'd guessed it was for lights on an old sign, a sign which was later replaced with a much larger unlit one. re not having E7, we certainly have a lower rate on that meter, it's detailed on it's own separate bill with just standing charge and off-peak unit charge, question is, is that's the off-peak charge, what happens if you're taking power during peak times ?

the storage heaters are certainly storage heaters, yep

P.S - I think I'll get hold of a cheap clamp meter, I'm sure it'll come in useful

 

[Paul2129]

someone from here on the forum has offered to take a look at this for me, he can't offer to fix it, but it's nice of him to offer to take a look, might be able to shed some light on it.

of these two shops with meters adjacent to each other, I'd determined by the flashing light on the meter, and the huge electrical flash when I turned the switches off ! that two of the three heaters are recorded on the night meter... although running throughout the day as we've discussed

the last remaining heater, which sits in the archway between the shops actually has wiring that heads in the direction of the opposite shop to the aforementioned two meters, and what do you know, todays day meter readings seem to represent the amount of electricity used by about 20 LED fluro-tubes, and a roughly 2Kw storage heater ! what a surprise, NOT ! so another 17 hours of contstant unwanted electric consumption, this time on or day rate meter.

looking forward to getting this sorted, and likely seeing our electric bill half !