Electrical Testing For Landlords

[binky]

difficult to comment on cases without details. If all else fails, tell landlord it's your problem for next 5 years if certified 'satisfactory'. Seems to appeal to landlords for some reason :^O

 

[Doc Hudson]

If there were a legal obligation to have an inspection then I am sure cases such as this tragic one in Cornwall would have highlighted it. Especially as there were blatant omissions of general electrical safety.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/cornwall/8140632.stm

Recording an accidental death verdict, Coroner Andrew Cox said it was "inexplicable" there was no law on checking the electrics in rented homes.

a verdict of Accidental Death. I may be wrong but if EAWR and H&S laws were applicable, the verdict would not have been accidental death?  There are campaigns to get the law changed, http://hhgrahamjones.blogspot.co.uk/2012/06/keep-renting-safe-campaign.html but at the moment it is still non compulsory. however daft we my all think the law is!

Doc H.

 

[binky]

I was wondering what the outcome of that tragic case was - never found out what the sentence / fine was if any.

Personally I would rather peddle my bull than see that ever happen again, even if I am wrong. Did notice the bit about HMOs in the report....

'There is no current legislation covering mains electrical supplies to houses which are not multi-occupancy.'

still not completely convinced that it's completely right, though I'm no legal expert.

 

[binky]

have signed campaign

 

[SPECIAL LOCATION]

I think think the OP  committed suicide

didnt get a clear cut answer....so

for the OP if he ever comes back

there is no legal requirement

£75  or £150  his choice

Erm...

Post #3  ?????

Single tenant rented property answer = NO

Houses of multiple occupancy answer = YES.

:coat

 

[SPECIAL LOCATION]

erm,

I'll still say NO,

there is NO legal requirement either way,

unless you know of a statutory document that states otherwise,

or,

I may have read it all wrong, as usual.

Multiple occupancy requires an EICR every 5 years

Houses in Multiple Occupation (HMOs)

England and Wales

The

Management of Houses in Multiple Occupation (England) Regulations 2006

and the

Management of Houses in Multiple Occupation (Wales) Regulations 2006

require that every electrical installation in an HMO is inspected and tested at least

every five years by a suitably qualified person, who should provide a certificate giving

the results of the inspection. If your local housing authority asks in writing for this

certificate (Electrical Installation Condition Report - previously Periodic Inspection

Report), you must supply it within seven days of receiving the request.

Its a similar concept as pubs and clubs needing a valid EICR every 'X?' years in order to maintain their entertainments license or license to sell intoxicating licquor...

 

[SPECIAL LOCATION]

what statutory document does that come from?

pubs and clubs requiring it for a license I think you will find is a condition of their licence, a completely different scenario, and in fact law,

just state the legality of a HMO or otherwise requiring a PIR or stop trying to pass off opinion as fact.

Try reading the links....

(From post #3)

or shall I copy and past it for you....

From here....

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2006/372/regulation/6/made

 

Duty of manager to supply and maintain gas and electricity6.—(1) The manager must supply to the local housing authority within 7 days of receiving a request in writing from that authority the latest gas appliance test certificate it has received in relation to the testing of any gas appliance at the HMO by a recognised engineer.

(2) In paragraph (1), “recognised engineer†means an engineer recognised by the Council of Registered Gas Installers as being competent to undertake such testing.

(3) The manager must—

(a)ensure that every fixed electrical installation is inspected and tested at intervals not exceeding five years by a person qualified to undertake such inspection and testing;

(b)obtain a certificate from the person conducting that test, specifying the results of the test; and

©supply that certificate to the local housing authority within 7 days of receiving a request in writing for it from that authority.

(4) The manager must not unreasonably cause the gas or electricity supply that is used by any occupier within the HMO to be interrupted.

Not my opionion...

just a statutory document!!

headbang   headbang   

:C  

:coat  

P.S.

A property with 4 people living in it is NOT a HMO!

 

[binky]

do you think Steps is getting HRT? Goes off on one worse than the wife

 

[SPECIAL LOCATION]

OK, so you have stated a regulation that applies to England and Wales, what actual act does it come under,?

Front page of the regulation will tell you that..

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2006/372/introduction/made#f00001

i.e

The Secretary of State, in exercise of the powers conferred by section 234 of the Housing Act 2004(1), makes the following Regulations

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2004/34/section/234

:C

I doubt the ESC would state there is a legal obligation...

if there wasn't ??

just a reminder.. a HMO typically has 5 or more tenants and/or three or more stories high!

a two story 4 tenant student house is NOT a HMO!!!!

but then I am only a kn0b with all the gear and no idea!

 

[binky]

http://www.electriciansblog.co.uk/2012/05/landlords-electrical-safety-certificate-and-condition-report-eicr/

seems I'm not the only one with this view!

 

[binky]

and from the national landlords Association:-

The NLA is reminding landlords that by law, they must ensure all electrical wiring and installations in their properties are safe, and the best way to be sure of that is to have the installation inspected periodically (typically every 5 years) by a competent electrician.

and from the ESC  http://www.esc.org.uk/landlords/

if you read the first 2 tips it dicusses responsibilty for electrical safety, and legal requirements for HiMOs. Alas it doesn't give us chapter and verse as their sources of info.

 

[binky]

Last week an 82-year-old landlord received a fine for £5,000 for supplying a faulty electric radiator in her rented property. 

The failure to maintain the equipment caused an accident, in which a 33-year-old mother died only days after moving into the village in Cornwall.

Found the answer to my earlier question. Think she pleaded a mixture of ignorance and the fact the sparky didn't get there in time as her defence.

finding it frustrating that nobody seems to put up a real legal case for testing, nearly everything refers to ESC

 

[binky]

An electrical safety check must be commissioned prior to the commencement of a tenancy, and must be carried out by a competent person (a Part P qualified electrician in kitchens and bathrooms) to ensure that the electricity supply, and all appliances, are legal. This includes supplying instruction books where needed for safe use.

IMPORTANT: Failure to comply with the Electrical Regulations may constitute a criminal offence under the Consumer Protection Act 1987 that carries a maximum penalty on summary conviction of a £5000.00 fine and/or six months imprisonment.

This Legislation means that Landlords have a legal obligation and a duty of care to tenants to ensure that the electrical installation and the electrical equipment supplied is safe. The Electrical Equipment (Safety) Regulations have been mandatory since 1st January 1997. They state that all electrical appliances with let accommodation must be safe. This applies to both new and second-hand appliances and covers all electrical items supplied for the intended use of the Tenant. The regulations also cover fixed appliances such as cookers etc. The only method of insuring that these appliances are safe is to have them tested by a trained electrical engineer using the portable appliance testing equipment, know as a (PAT) test.

What does this mean?

All electrical systems/items must be:

• Certified safe when a tenancy begins
• Maintained in a safe condition throughout the tenancy
• Maintained only by ‘competent persons’
• Fit for purpose and free of defects.

What should I as a landlord do?

from a landlord legal advice website - explains the £5k fine .

So in conclusion it would seem half the world agrees with me, so if I'm wrong, prove it ray  

please tell me there aren't any barristers on this site :^O

 

[Doc Hudson]

An electrical safety check must be commissioned prior to the commencement of a tenancy, and must be carried out by a competent person (a Part P qualified electrician in kitchens and bathrooms) to ensure that the electricity supply, and all appliances, are legal. This includes supplying instruction books where needed for safe use.

The only method of insuring that these appliances are safe is to have them tested by a trained electrical engineer using the portable appliance testing equipment, know as a (PAT) test.

Any person who knows anything about electrical safety and the legal aspects of electrical work will clearly see that this opening statement is written by someone who does not understand what they are writing. Part P building regulations is to do with installation and alteration work. It carries no relevance or authority with regard to inspection and testing of any property. Also an electrical inspection can be carried out by a competent person who has never done any part p work in their life and is not registered with any part P scheme provider, also Part P carries no relevance to PAT testing either. and pat testing certificate can be obtained in a day by a very unskilled person, Not a trained electrical engineer! So this particular reference document appears flawed in its content and probably is written by someone with only limited knowledge.

As we are having a bit of a circular debate here, to try and summaries a few key points, my understanding is as follows.  

• Almost every competent electrician would agree that regular inspection of rented properties is a potential life saving exercise.
• All landlords have responsibilities (some legal others just good practice) toward their tenants.
• All landlords must ensure the Gas and Electrical installations are safe as in the event of an unfortunate incident they may be prosecuted.
• If a landlord refuses to have any electrical inspections done and there are no serious incidents then they cannot be prosecuted for not having had an inspection done. (which is the crux of the question asked in post1)
• Unless it is a multiple occupancy property you have no obligation to have an electrical inspection done as there are other ways you could meet your duties to keep the installation safe.
• Multiple occupancy properties must make available an inspection certificate, from the past 5 years, within 7 days notice to the council who license the landlord of multiple occupancy properties.

Also, most of this thread hasn't even mentioned what extent of the installation is or isn't inspected, agreed limitations etc, Are these landlord guidance sites suggesting a full inspection 100% no sampling, or a 5 minute walk by visual. both could be classed as an electrical inspection.

Doc H.

 

[binky]

the landlords sites I have looked at do suggest limited electrical inspections yearly or at change of tennancy. What is frustrating is the lack of background legal input, even by the ESC, and the fact I can't find a rather well argued and lengthy article i read years ago which is the foundation of what i have been spouting for years.

Change of tack, since we all agree that regualar inspection is / should be mandatory, can we all agree to sign up to the 'keep renting safe' campaign. Lets turn all this into action!

 

[Doc Hudson]

Change of tack, since we all agree that regular inspection is / should be mandatory, can we all agree to sign up to the 'keep renting safe' campaign. Lets turn all this into action!

As you say it can only be a good thing for mandatory inspections to be brought in for all properties. Even in the private non-rental sector it would be a good thing, probably reduce a lot of DIY bodge jobs if homeowners thought they have got to get their house wiring checked in 5 years!  the link again:  http://keeprentingsafe.weebly.com/sign-up.html  Current legal state: http://keeprentingsafe.weebly.com/the-current-legal-position.html

Doc H.

 

[steptoe]

Front page of the regulation will tell you that..

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2006/372/introduction/made#f00001

i.e

The Secretary of State, in exercise of the powers conferred by section 234 of the Housing Act 2004(1), makes the following Regulations

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2004/34/section/234

:C

I doubt the ESC would state there is a legal obligation...

if there wasn't ??

just a reminder.. a HMO typically has 5 or more tenants and/or three or more stories high!

a two story 4 tenant student house is NOT a HMO!!!!

but then I am only a kn0b with all the gear and no idea!

so, it only applies to England then, its not a UK thing,

glad we knew that from the start, might have caused confusion otherwise.  :|

at least binky is coming up with relevant links and not just trying to blag stuff that is irrelevant to at least three of the countries that make up the UK.

 

[SPECIAL LOCATION]

so, it only applies to England then, its not a UK thing,

glad we knew that from the start, might have caused confusion otherwise.  :|

at least binky is coming up with relevant links and not just trying to blag stuff that is irrelevant to at least three of the countries that make up the UK.

No! 

you are still wrong....  :shakehead

{was that a quiet admittance that there is and ACT that you suggested did not exist?}

try reading the Welsh one....

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/wsi/2006/1715/introduction/made

The National Assembly for Wales, in exercise of the powers conferred on it by sections 59(2), (3) and (4), 60(6), 63(5) and (6), 65(3) and (4), 83(2), (3) and (4), 84(6), 87(5) and (6), 232(3) and (7), 250(2), 258(2)(b), (5) and (6), 259(2)© of, and paragraphs 3 and 6(1)© of Schedule 14 to, the Housing Act 2004(1), makes the following Regulations:

and yes it is and ACT not just a regualtion...

Binky links relavant...??

Well thank you for acknowledging my links..  (yes the same ones I post #3 & binky posts #31 .)

or was it not that one???

maybe its it the BLOG link.. post #30   (erm surely not that.. its a BLOG not an 'ACT' is it, so thats not law?)

and the post #33's links are getting confused between part P and EICR..

or are you also under this misunderstanding that Part P has anything to do with Inspection reports?

not sure which bits you are so impressed with.....

talk about confused and muddled...     and I thought I was allegedly the one with all the gear and no idea???

Or is it just a personal attack??? 

as I don't recall hearing the apology for the obscene language and name calling from yesterday ????

{which has now been removed ????}

another bad day?

or just too much beer?

:C

 

[steptoe]

every day I am alive is another good day,

no such thing as too much beer,

no, not a personal attack, I dont know you personally to do such a thing,

when regs etc are being quoted as facts and law I like them to be clear as to who they relate to,

binky made a much simplier [iMO] link to the relevant facts, and not simply a basic link that didnt relate to more than half the jurisdiction you inferred (or simply omitted to say was not included) was covered.

Wales, still only at most <50% of the UK, so not very concise when this fact hasnt been made clear as we are a [predominately] UK forum, not an English and/or Welsh one.

I do work all over the British Isles, and not even simply the UK, or GB, and yes, they are all different definitions.

 

[steptoe]

EDIT

obscene language is yet another personal opinion thing, not a definitive act, what I may feel is usable language may not be your taste,

much the same as you regard posting a law that only applies to England or Wales as a fact on a UK forum is acceptable,

opinions differ,