HELP, How to prove power theft through my circuit from the flat above

Talk Electrician Forum

Help Support Talk Electrician Forum:

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, and others.
There is access from the kitchen ceiling which is lowered for air vent. I have never opened it is a small plastic lid. What kind of camera is that. But again if I find something how can I use it? With the police? call an electrician to confirm it? call my energy supplier? What?

I rent this one bed flat. I do not share anything
If I understand correctly then it seems like one or more of your cables runs in your ceiling/under the upstairs flat's floor. They have tapped into that and rigged up a lamp or something so they can see when you have turned off your distribution board. They then scurry around temporarily reconnecting to their supply.

The electrician you called in may not have had the time to look hard enough or get access to the upstairs flat to lift floorboards to see from above.

You might be able to get free advice from a local Citizens Advice Bureau. You must inform the landlord, the people in the flat above will have broken their agreement in several ways and their messing around with the electricity supply could pose a serious fire risk. I would put that in writing to the landlord - the landlord will have a right of entry.
 
Hi Sun.

Well done for contacting your Housing Assoc. Was this done in writing? If not, I'd suggest doing so again, so you have a record of having informed them. I presume both you and the person above are tenants? If so, you'll undoubtedly want that person removed after this is sorted, and lack of action from the HA at this point can hopefully be used to oblige them to make this happen.

To begin with, tho', I'd suggest you actually want to nail this guy properly, and have them sorted out, convicted, and removed, and not just for them to be scared into stopping, getting away with it, and perhaps even restarting later on? Good. Then you need 'evidence' - see below - and not for anyone to act until you have this. So hold off any other action for the moment, until you have evidence.

Obviously, like other users of this forum, I do not know the 'facts' here, only what you are telling us. But, I think answers should be given on the basis that what we are being told is correct and 'true' to the best of an OP's knowledge, unless there is very good reason to suspect the opposite. It is ultimately self-regulating in any case, as any helpful information given will be useless to anyone who is wrong about the original issue! So, I'm assuming you are giving an accurate account. I'm also not going to go 'conspiracy theorist' and pondering whether the HA is also in on this - that is highly unlikely.

Where is your meter and CU located - is it inside your flat? If it's easily accessible, then I think there may be a simple way of determining whether your power is being pinched. You will need a clamp-on energy meter, which you should fit over the incoming cable, probably between the meter and your CU. No idea which models are available these days, but I used to have a 'Wattson' before I sold it for a £enner, so similar must surely be available. Clamp this on, and it'll provide an instant readout of your wattage use. The Wattson was wireless - as most are - so you can keep an eye on your flat's totsal consumption in real time at a glance. Turn everything off in your flat, and confirm it's reading '0'. Turn on items of known consumption - say a couple of light bulbs, then a 1-bar electric heater (400W or 1kW or whatever size it is), your TV, etc. What energy is actually being consumed by each? Write down your results - better still, also video record yourself on your phone doing this with a narration; "Everything is off in my flat. Meter is reading zero. Turning on a single 1kW electric heater. Meter instantly shows 1,000W being used. Heater off. TV on - that's showing 120W. Just heard a click from above, and meter has jumped to 2,500W..." that sort of thing.

That is 'evidence'. With that, you contact your energy provider and tell them, "My meter appears to be faulty as I can prove that it is reading far higher - many times more - than any item I am using. Possibly there is another cause..." Ultimately, if the neighbour is doing this, they will be caught. I'd suggest you do want to 'catch' them, and not for them to just stop or ease off for a while and play it canny, knowing they can restart at any time. So, get a meter, set it up, live in your flat, and keep using power as you would normally - so that they, too, go back to normal stealing, if that is what's happening - and build up your evidence log.

Eg, if you are watching TV in the evening, note down everything being used - lights, TV, fridge, etc - and the combined wattage of these (that should be fairly easy to do). Your meter should read very close to this total. If the meter jumps, start recording - "Watching TV, meter was reading 235W until a moment ago when I heard a click from above, and reading has jumped to..."
 
Last edited:
If I understand correctly then it seems like one or more of your cables runs in your ceiling/under the upstairs flat's floor. They have tapped into that and rigged up a lamp or something so they can see when you have turned off your distribution board. They then scurry around temporarily reconnecting to their supply.

The electrician you called in may not have had the time to look hard enough or get access to the upstairs flat to lift floorboards to see from above.

You might be able to get free advice from a local Citizens Advice Bureau. You must inform the landlord, the people in the flat above will have broken their agreement in several ways and their messing around with the electricity supply could pose a serious fire risk. I would put that in writing to the landlord - the landlord will have a right of entry.
I assumed the same but I can not imagine how is done technically.
I have contacted Citizens advise and wait for an appointment. I made formal complaint to my housing association attaching a sketch plan where I hear they have access underneath the floor. But for some reason I haven't received a reference number. They sent the electrician who did a very quick check. I do not know if they will check the flat above.
 
Hi Sun.

Well done for contacting your Housing Assoc. Was this done in writing? If not, I'd suggest doing so again, so you have a record of having informed them. I presume both you and the person above are tenants? If so, you'll undoubtedly want that person removed after this is sorted, and lack of action from the HA at this point can hopefully be used to oblige them to make this happen.

To begin with, tho', I'd suggest you actually want to nail this guy properly, and have them sorted out, convicted, and removed, and not just for them to be scared into stopping, getting away with it, and perhaps even restarting later on? Good. Then you need 'evidence' - see below - and not for anyone to act until you have this. So hold off any other action for the moment, until you have evidence.

Obviously, like other users of this forum, I do not know the 'facts' here, only what you are telling us. But, I think answers should be given on the basis that what we are being told is correct and 'true' to the best of an OP's knowledge, unless there is very good reason to suspect the opposite. It is ultimately self-regulating in any case, as any helpful information given will be useless to anyone who is wrong about the original issue! So, I'm assuming you are giving an accurate account. I'm also not going to go 'conspiracy theorist' and pondering whether the HA is also in on this - that is highly unlikely.

Where is your meter and CU located - is it inside your flat? If it's easily accessible, then I think there may be a simple way of determining whether your power is being pinched. You will need a clamp-on energy meter, which you should fit over the incoming cable, probably between the meter and your CU. No idea which models are available these days, but I used to have a 'Wattson' before I sold it for a £enner, so similar must surely be available. Clamp this on, and it'll provide an instant readout of your wattage use. The Wattson was wireless - as most are - so you can keep an eye on your flat's totsal consumption in real time at a glance. Turn everything off in your flat, and confirm it's reading '0'. Turn on items of known consumption - say a couple of light bulbs, then a 1-bar electric heater (400W or 1kW or whatever size it is), your TV, etc. What energy is actually being consumed by each? Write down your results - better still, also video record yourself on your phone doing this with a narration; "Everything is off in my flat. Meter is reading zero. Turning on a single 1kW electric heater. Meter instantly shows 1,000W being used. Heater off. TV on - that's showing 120W. Just heard a click from above, and meter has jumped to 2,500W..." that sort of thing.

That is 'evidence'. With that, you contact your energy provider and tell them, "My meter appears to be faulty as I can prove that it is reading far higher - many times more - than any item I am using. Possibly there is another cause..." Ultimately, if the neighbour is doing this, they will be caught. I'd suggest you do want to 'catch' them, and not for them to just stop or ease off for a while and play it canny, knowing they can restart at any time. So, get a meter, set it up, live in your flat, and keep using power as you would normally - so that they, too, go back to normal stealing, if that is what's happening - and build up your evidence log.

Eg, if you are watching TV in the evening, note down everything being used - lights, TV, fridge, etc - and the combined wattage of these (that should be fairly easy to do). Your meter should read very close to this total. If the meter jumps, start recording - "Watching TV, meter was reading 235W until a moment ago when I heard a click from above, and reading has jumped to..."
All well and good except for one very serious flaw. Those clamp on meters do NOT measure watts. They measure current and guess watts using some wrong assumptions. They assume voltage which is not constant and don’t take power factor into account.
 
All well and good except for one very serious flaw. Those clamp on meters do NOT measure watts. They measure current and guess watts using some wrong assumptions. They assume voltage which is not constant and don’t take power factor into account.
How 'serious' is this flaw in reality? This would scupper the results?
 
I would attach a dummy switch to the wall that simulates the sound and vibration of a socket switch. Turn everything of, operate that switch (they won’t know it’s a dummy) then see if your meter starts showing consumption. Failing that don’t use the wall switches, leave them on and operate switches on the the appliance. Unless they have a contacter wired in some way to operate when it senses power being used in certain sockets, I can’t see how they would know if you were or weren’t using power.
 
I have been watching this thread for some time and still not sure if its genuine or not
why would they wait until someone switched on a switch before turning on their item's
if they have connect to a lighting circuit under the floor, why would they not have their control above the floor boards, not below to save lifting the boards, and why do this in different rooms ,when they could just run leads to what ever they wanted to,
why are they waiting for the down stairs lights to come on, why would they have connected it like that anyway, when they would have connected into the loop live of the lights, if its the sockets or cooker/shower circuit they are live all the time and therefore they would not need to wait until some switched on a socket of other device, it just does not make sense to me, they could be stealing electric but why do in this way , when they bypassing the meter anyway ( as the OP says,)
 
Top