Electricity Supply Responsiblity

[dazeruk]

I had a letter from my electricity supply company saying that due to the age of my electricity meter they needed to come and replace it.

The guy arrived but said that due to the type of supply coming into my flat (fused nuetral) that this would would need to be rectified before they could replace the meter. This needed to done by the Distribution Network Operator.

I today had a guy from the network company come round and he says that they aren't responsible for this problem. Apparently my supply comes from a distribution block situated in the flat below. Sorry I can't be more specific but he was using terms I didn't understand. He said they are only responsible up to that point and that I will need to pay someone to replace the equipment from that point up to the meter.

I've spoken to a friend who used to work as an electrician and he says that no electrician would do that work as it would involve breaking seals on the meter which they are not allowed to do. Also as the work would involve disturbing someone else supply then it should be done by the network company.

Does anyone know what the regulations that relate this situation are?

Obviously I'd like not to have to pay to rectify this situation.

 

[m4tty]

Id just keep the old meter. Them new meters are big brother watching and recording data on your usage lol if you haven't had any probs with old meter id just put the ball back in meter companies court

 

[dazeruk]

It's not the change of meter that I'm bothered about, it's rectifying the problem of the fused neutral.

The current setup means that if the fuse on the neutral blew then all my electrical equipment would go off and it would appear that there was no supply. However, everything would infact still be live, hence it being a dangerous situation.

I thought that the DNO was responsible for all equipment up to the meter, so if anything needed to be replaced to correct a dangerous situation then they should be the ones doing it.

 

[kerching]

Unless things have changed the DNO are responsible for everything up to and including YOUR metering equipment UNLESS it is a private supply

this being the case and in view of the fact that we have an over zealous swear filter on here, i would suggest that the bloke from the DNO is a practising onanist

just using words from the OED

 

[SPECIAL LOCATION]

I had a letter from my electricity supply company saying that due to the age of my electricity meter they needed to come and replace it.

The guy arrived but said that due to the type of supply coming into my flat (fused neutral) that this would would need to be rectified before they could replace the meter. This needed to done by the Distribution Network Operator.

I today had a guy from the network company come round and he says that they aren't responsible for this problem. Apparently my supply comes from a distribution block situated in the flat below. Sorry I can't be more specific but he was using terms I didn't understand. He said they are only responsible up to that point and that I will need to pay someone to replace the equipment from that point up to the meter.

I've spoken to a friend who used to work as an electrician and he says that no electrician would do that work as it would involve breaking seals on the meter which they are not allowed to do. Also as the work would involve disturbing someone else supply then it should be done by the network company.

Does anyone know what the regulations that relate this situation are?

Obviously I'd like not to have to pay to rectify this situation.

Hello....

can we confirm a few bits first of all..

you say it is a flat.. are you renting this property or are you the owner?

Who owns the other flats (and the sub mains from the incoming supply to your flat)?

If renting then I would pass them back to the landlord to negotiate with save wasting your time.

Even if you own the flat, your responsibilities as a homeowner are just your circuits in the property (lights sockets etc..), the fuse box (consumer unit) and the two wires that go from the consumer unit to the meter... 

EVERYTHING else before that meter, incoming fuses supply cable etc..

do not belong to you and you have no responsibility to maintain their upkeep...

If you had asked the supply company to come and reposition your meter you would be charged for this work...

Other than that routine maintenance of their equipment and keeping their equipment to current safety standards is not your responsibility and you should not have to pay anything toward it!

Guinness

 

[Blue Duck]

Unless things have changed the DNO are responsible for everything up to and including YOUR metering equipment UNLESS it is a private supply

this being the case and in view of the fact that we have an over zealous swear filter on here, i would suggest that the bloke from the DNO is a practising onanist

just using words from the OED

Spoke with UKPN the other day & they told me their responsibility is up to the service head, fuse & meter are your suppliers responsibility  and after the meter is yours...

They also told me that it was okay for a qualified sparks to pull main fuse... :yellow card   I asked for confirmation from a manager then was told it was the suppliers problem and I would have to call them. headbang

Also if the "submain"is internal to the property then it is the responsibility of the landlord/owner. ?

:innocent

 

[ProDave]

The only time I have seen the submain as the tenants / flat owners responsibility is when all the meters are together in one cupboard.

but your meter is in your flat. YOUR responsibilty starts after the meter.

Just respectfully tell them it is not your problem.  THEY want the meter changed, so THEY must do whatever upgrades are necessary for that. And in this contect you don't have to get too bothered who "they" are, the DNO or your energy supplier.

In the mean time just be careful If you ever do get a supply failure that you think may be the DNO's fuse blown, then turn off your CU just in case it is the N fuse that's blown.

Did the monkey that attended even pull the N fuse to see  if it was a fuse or a solid link in there?

 

[dazeruk]

The flats were built in about 1900. Each is purpose built, they aren't a converted house, and have their own fornt door and are two storeys high.

Can't post a link but if you google 'Warner House Waltham Forest' the first link will show you the type of property.

Each is owner occupied.

I guess the 'submain' is what is located in the flat below. If you say it being internal means it is the responsibility of the owner then does that mean me or the owners below?

The supply company said it was the responsibility of the DNO. The DNO says it's my responsibility.

My electrician friend said he wouldn't touch anything supply side as it would mean breaking seals on the meter and that is illegal.

Not sure how to take this forward.

 

[OnOff]

My brother who is a barrister is seconded from his chambers to a local authority giving them legal advice on a wide range of matters. A short while ago, I for once was able to help him..........usually it's the other way round. The local authority had a big block of council flats. Not sure on the ownership as in all council or whether some had been bought but the place had a communal area where off to one side was a switchroom with the buildings incoming mains supplies. There had been regular reports of a burning smell coming from this room. My guess was old and undersized cabling which is what it turned out to be. It seems the council had contacted the DNO (I think it was UKPN0 but nothing had been done. They had also spoken to the supplier(s) and ditto:

I pointed my brother to the ESQCR (The Electricity Safety, Quality and Continuity Regulations 2002) he wrote to the various parties quoting this and that according to these regs they ALL have a "duty of co-operation" to sort such and issue. Lo and behold it was!

I'd write back to the supplier but copy the DNO in stating the problem incomer, asking for written confirmation as to who's resposibility this is etc. Keep it simple, state that you understand the meter needs to be changed due to age and therefore presumably safety. Add that the DNO chap who visited stated the cabling to your meter was not the DNO's problem and ask whether that is in fact correct. Also that he pointed out that you have a "fused neutral" that you understand is unsafe.Your understanding is that cabling before the suppliers meter is the DNOs. State your ignorance on electrical matters but that on taking advice you believe the ESCQR 2002 may apply and that both the supplier and EDF have a duty of co-operation to assist in resolving the issue.

 

[NozSpark]

TBH I think that they could be right... they may not have adpoted the cable from the head to your flat.

However that does not mean that it's yours, IMHO it would be something id pass on to the building management company.

 

[Sharpend]

Having worked in the area specifically, i can tell you that the DNO are responsible for the supply to your flat.

I'd say that the DNO guy perhaps couldn't gain access to other flat, and thought to hell with it!

 

[batty]

If its a suppliers meter then the supply is there responsibility. Before it was privatised this would be sorted easily you find this more and more if its going to cost money somebody will try to get out of doing it. At the end of the day they want to change the meter let them deal with it. Its not your problem.

 

[apprentice87]

If they claim the cable to the meter belongs to you, ask them if that means it is ok to connect a load of electric heaters to "your" cable before it gets to the meter, as you understand that this will mean that you can be all nice and toasty without having a bigger bill....

john

 

[dazeruk]

If they claim the cable to the meter belongs to you, ask them if that means it is ok to connect a load of electric heaters to "your" cable before it gets to the meter, as you understand that this will mean that you can be all nice and toasty without having a bigger bill....

john

This is something the electrician friend I spoke to said.

If I can get someone to mess around with the 'submain' then why not get someone to connect directly from there to the DU!!

 

[dazeruk]

Thought I'd post an update for those interested.

I rang the DNO today. I told them what had happened and they looked at the report sent back by the guy that attended on Saturday. He reported that there was no fuse neutral on the supply and no further action was needed. He even stated that he had inspected downstairs property where the supply enters which I know for a fact he did not do.

I stated that this information was not correct. The supply company guy had definitely declined the install of a new meter based on a fuse neutral being in place and even as a layman I could see that there was indeed fuses on both the live and neutral supply.

They have now booked an appointment for one of their mantenance team to attend. I think the first guy was from their rapid response team. I've been asked to send photos of the incoming supply setup to illustrate the current situation.

 

[Bruspark]

In the London area you do come across incoming supplies where originally there was DC + and -

and 0 in a lead sheath ground. When they converted to AC supplies in the 30's that sometimes left the two supply cables both fused (60A) on 2 different AC phases from the street but usually only one phase going to the meter, one sitting live but spare and no fuse in the neutral /0v. At first glance in a dark cupboard this can look like neutral fusing .....,

 

[Sharpend]

Well bru, didn't have you down as being older than deke!!!

 

[OnOff]

You might find that in fact it is a Skanska maintenance team that turn up as UKPN sub to them. From my experience with them (Skanska) their admin / phone side appear first class. returning your calls when they say they will, very pc, keen to work round you, spouting health and safety etc.

Then it falls down when they send two young muppets to change the head and depart without having fitted any seals let alone numbered ones! :lol:

 

[dazeruk]

I tried posting a link to the photos I sent so you guys could see, unfortunately I've not posted 10 times yet so couldn't do that.

If someone with a better posting history than me would volunteer for me to send some links could they post them for me?

 

[a3]

I tried posting a link to the photos I sent so you guys could see, unfortunately I've not posted 10 times yet so couldn't do that.

If someone with a better posting history than me would volunteer for me to send some links could they post them for me?

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