Emergency Lighting

[festivalmick]

Hi Guys, I wonder if anyone can help me?

I run a PAT Testing company and from time to time I Get asked to do electrical work which I sub out to a qualified spark 99% of the time. However if its just a case of changing a light fitting or a switch I tend to do this myself. I was asked this week to change a 6ft double florecsent fitting by a customer  which I agreed to do but when I went to do it It turned out that the guy had purchased a Thorn Poppack emergency fitting (E3PPZXL270) and he wanted me to fit this so that if the lights went off he would have an emergency light. The problem is that he has 8 lights in total and they all run off of each other in a chain so there is no permanant live. I expained to him that I was not qualified to be able to put in a permanant live and felt that this was a specialist job etc etc. He then asked if I could just wire it as a normal light for him. I thought in theory if I just connected the switch live (Wire) to the switch live terminal this would work but it did not so I then connected the switch live (Wire) to the permanant live terminal thinking this would probably not work and I was right but I thought the green charging light might come on on the unit and it did not. In desperation I then bridged the switch live and permanant live on the unit and this time the green light did come on and when I turned the light switch off half of one of the tubes lit up ???

My question is, is there a way to wire this fitting and use it just as a normal fitting?

Also can anyone tell me just out of interest how these fittings are actually supposed to work when they are wired correctly using a permanant live? Ie does one tube remain on or do both remain on if they are used normally when switched on as a light and then under emergency conditions Ie when there is a power cut does one tube come on or do both tubes come on.

Thanks for reading

Cheers Mick

 

[kerching]

Only way to make it work as a standard fitting is to disable all of the emergency kit inside it

it may be a combined unit in which case you have two hopes....Bob and NONE

normal use ....fitting works via the switched live and PL

PL also charges batts

mains fails....usually ONE lamp comes on

the way you have it at present battery charges when switch is on....switch off...no charge...batt kicks in....runs lamp until batt is flat. Since batts take about 24h to charge I doubt if you will ever see it in batt mode for more than a couple of mins

wiring it this way will render the fitting the same as Victoria Beckhams singing career

ruke number ONE.....NEVER let the customer buy their own fittings and/or accessories without YOU seeing them first!

eg.....any B and Q chrome and glass fitting.with dangly bits .......pile of s****, ten minutes to put up.....7 years to fit dangly bits....then it looks like a polished turd

just saying

 

[Essex1]

Welcome,

only one lamp will illuminate under emergency conditions. 

Emergency lighting is classed as a life saving installation and has strict design criteria. You as the installer will have to hand over the following certification:

Emergency Lighting Completion Certificate

Emergency Lighting Design - Declaration of Conformancy

Emergency Lighting Installation - Declaration of Conformancy

Emergency Lighting Verification - Declaration of Conformancy

By issuing this certification you are telling the client all is ok and the system fully complies with BS5266-1: 2011. Anyone installing emergency lighting should have a good knowledge about what is required and competent to sign these certificates stating as such. 

I would strongly suggest you seek the advise of your electrical contractor who should know all this.  

The fitting should be able to be re-wired to work as a normal fitting but it would be cheaper just to buy the correct fitting and install that. 

 

[festivalmick]

Thanks for you answers guys. I have actually solved the problem because I just went out and bought a normal 6ft double fitting and used that instead. But I want to be able to justfy doing that when I see the customer on Monday as he was not present at the time. His lights are actually on 2 seperate circuits so his health and safety advisor told him he was quite happy for him to install 4 plug in spotlight emergency lights that would come on if there was total power cut but not if just the lighting circuit failed but as he has 2 lighting circuits on should always be on if the other fails so the plug in version would be ok. Any thoughts on this? and where can we get those plug in versions from?

 

[Essex1]

Tell his H&S advisor he does not have a clue what he is talking about. The emergency lighting needs to be designed to ensure minimum lux levels are achieved along escape routes, change of direction, change of levels, fire fighting equipment etc etc. 

Ask your client if he is willing to pay for a proper design to be carried out. If he is not walk away. 

 

[Andy™]

there is an entire set of regulations that apply to emergency lighting. unless you are competent with them, then tell them go get someone else who is to at least do the design & testing

 

[kerching]

His H &S advisor is wrong!

however, if he thinks he is right, get him to sign a piece of paper saying he accepts FULL RESPONSIBILITY.

i would be VERY surprised if he does this!....you can draw your own conclusions from his actions

just saying

 

[Sidewinder]

Another, H&S adviser who is incompetent.

What a surprise, they are everywhere don't you know.

The trouble is because they have a little knowledge they are dangerous, and, they are so stupid, they believe that they know everything about everything.

When the truth is they know next to nothing about anything.

ESPECIALLY anything electrical or machinery related, trust me I know, I have first hand experience.

 

[Andy™]

its probably just a DOL with a start and stop button to work something very small and basic... canoe now needs to re-wire the place and build a massive control panel costing £90k + just to turn on the kettle...

 

[Sidewinder]

So the guy wants to keep his idiot beak out of the job and flock off.

I am so fed up with these H&S bods who "think" they know about machines and electricity causing more trouble then they can fix.

Socket covers being a perfect example!

 

[Andy™]

well you want them to poke their nose in enough to say something needs done, but then it should be get the correct people in to advise what needs done rather than them trying to say what needs done

 

[festivalmick]

So do these plug in emergency lights even exist? I am asking this as he already has 4 of these that he no longer uses as the battery's are all flat but up until last year he had all 4 plugged into sockets. i just wonder if someone has actually bought these units and then put a plug onto them so they could be used as plug in units rather than hard wired in and then sold them to him? 

As I said previously I am only a PAT Tester and I have C&G Qualifications in PAT Testing 2377 but I don't try and pretend to be a spark I just help him with socket replacement and that kind of small stuff. I have been on the safe isolation course so always put that in practice if I do any small replacements but I certainly would not undertake any work in regards to safety lighting etc and I just want this information so that I can let him know just where he stands and like you guys I feel sure that the advice given about plug in emergency lights must be dodgy.

Once again guys thanks for taking the time the help.

 

[Andy™]

no. you could make some, however they will not comply with regulations

 

[Sidewinder]

The requirements for emergency lighting in a business premises are that which is required by the RRFSO.

The requirement will come out of the fire risk assessment undertaken by the competent person.

This is all statute law.

It's not even the realm of an electrician really these days as it has to be done to meet the requirements of the fire risk assessment.

There are not many electricians who are competent to undertake FRA's under the RRFSO.

 

[Dune Mac Donald]

Hello 

This sounds like a case of being a little out of your league, We have all been there , Everybody has to start somewhere !

 

[Andy™]

Hello 

This sounds like a case of being a little out of your league, We have all been there , Everybody has to start somewhere !

not far from 5 year old topic... id expect the job has been done one way or another by now