ESB Isolator Policy

[JohnM6543]

Hello all. First post which hopefully hasn't been done to death elsewhere on the forum. Apologies if it has. Just wondering if anybody has had any dealings with the ESB in the Republic of Ireland with regards their fit isolator after the meter to allow the DB to be changed policy. My inlaw's DB uses the bottle type fuses which, in their part of the world at least, the 6A ones are becoming difficult to get. So thinking to myself it was time for a nice new 18th edition type one - surely their regs can't be much different from ours in the UK - I sent an enquiry to the ESB to see if they would fit an isolator. I got a call today telling me that they didn't do so and that I would have to send them a completion cert for the new DB, which they would then follow up with a test and inspect type job and connect the new tails to the meter as necessary. Bit dissapointing that they wouldn't do the isolator but I was then told that if I wanted to power the new board on a temporary basis I could block the existing tails from the meter and connect the new ones there. Never mind the fact that this would be working live - as you'd need to break the seal on the meter to disconnect the tails or on the cut out to provide isolation - but if they will allow you to do this you might as well fit your own isolator while you are at it.

Got me thinking about the old just cut the cable head/meter seals and get on with it argument, which I've never agreed with as it's not your equipment, but I can see how others would not bat an eyelid in doing so, especially if the DNO is encouraging you to work live! He might just have been trying to help me out a wee bit but "just cut the seal and we'll reseal it" would have been more helpful! Be interested to hear if anyone else has encountered this sort of thing.

Cheers

 

[ProDave]

Some of us find there are never any seals on the suppliers fuse.  We do our work, and then report the fact we found the seal missing.

 

[binky]

I have a fruit bat in my eye lid.... :innocent

Working live tails into blocks or an isolator i actually easy enough to do if you are that worried about cutting seals - I do this once in a while to keep me on my toes  ray . 

If you haven't done this before do the Neutral first to hone your skills, tell anyone talking to you to Foxtrot Oscar, an get on with it. However as I no longer see aneed to kill myself for beaurocratic non-sense, seals seem to disappear regularly. Having spotted said missings eals it is only right to inspect the main fuse isn't a piece of wire or rusty nail, so you're doing everyone  afavour by having a look. True story , on a house not touched since being built in the 70s, I found a piece of wire, and it was sealed....  Having inspected fuse it would also be rude not to reseal - easily found on e-bay.

 

[ProDave]

I have a fruit bat in my eye lid.... :innocent

Working live tails into blocks or an isolator i actually easy enough to do if you are that worried about cutting seals -

Do you also do that with an isolator in a metal box?  KMF or REC2 yes.

 

[binky]

Do you also do that with an isolator in a metal box?  KMF or REC2 yes.

not seen any in a metal box.

 

[Murdoch]

Whilst sparks are expected to fit metal cased products, DNO’s still fit plastic enclosed isolators

go figure

 

[Risteard]

Hello all. First post which hopefully hasn't been done to death elsewhere on the forum. Apologies if it has. Just wondering if anybody has had any dealings with the ESB in the Republic of Ireland with regards their fit isolator after the meter to allow the DB to be changed policy. My inlaw's DB uses the bottle type fuses which, in their part of the world at least, the 6A ones are becoming difficult to get. So thinking to myself it was time for a nice new 18th edition type one - surely their regs can't be much different from ours in the UK - I sent an enquiry to the ESB to see if they would fit an isolator. I got a call today telling me that they didn't do so and that I would have to send them a completion cert for the new DB, which they would then follow up with a test and inspect type job and connect the new tails to the meter as necessary. Bit dissapointing that they wouldn't do the isolator but I was then told that if I wanted to power the new board on a temporary basis I could block the existing tails from the meter and connect the new ones there. Never mind the fact that this would be working live - as you'd need to break the seal on the meter to disconnect the tails or on the cut out to provide isolation - but if they will allow you to do this you might as well fit your own isolator while you are at it.

Got me thinking about the old just cut the cable head/meter seals and get on with it argument, which I've never agreed with as it's not your equipment, but I can see how others would not bat an eyelid in doing so, especially if the DNO is encouraging you to work live! He might just have been trying to help me out a wee bit but "just cut the seal and we'll reseal it" would have been more helpful! Be interested to hear if anyone else has encountered this sort of thing.

Cheers

I've had lots of dealings with the ESB, and to be honest they're fine so long as you do what they require. They won't accept things done any other way.

An 18th Edition style DB will not be appropriate - the work must comply with the 4th Edition of the ETCI National Rules for Electrical Installations ET101:2008. (This is soon to be superseded by the 5th Edition Wiring Rules, which will become I.S. 10101:2020) If you were to put in an 18th Edition style setup then you would potentially breach numerous Rules within this - the Standards are by no means identical.

Also these are Restricted Works and can only be carried out by a Registered Electrical Contractor (REC). And will require a Completion Certificate (which as the ESB have stated they need to connect.) They often fit isolators outside of the meters as part of the work (or use the ISKRA meters with an inbuilt isolator). But for older installations often the existing meter is left, although as I point out sometimes an isolator is added. The ISCOs on the tails is the normal way of connecting until the ESB connect the tails in. (But this can only happen with a cert.) You will be committing a criminal offence if you carry out the works without being a REC - the penalty is imprisonment for up to three years and/or €15,000 fine.

You cannot fit your own isolator. The only equipment you can fit in the Permalli Box is an MCB in compliance with the Wiring Rules, and this must be located in the bottom right-hand corner of the cabinet. Never, ever cut the ESB's seals. They WILL fine you, and fine you severely. Be warned!

 

[Andy™]

Whilst sparks are expected to fit metal cased products, DNO’s still fit plastic enclosed isolators

go figure

we can still fit a plastic REC2, same as DNO

 

[JohnM6543]

Guys,

Thanks for the replies. The fact that they want to go down the test and connect certificated route means I'm not going to be able to do the work and I'll leave it to the local guys. It was the encouraging to work live bit that surprised me but the ESB chap was probably only trying to give me a step for a hint. In some of the ESB meter lay out drawings I seen on line I seen an "ESB Isolation switch", which is why I asked them to install one, but if that's only appicable at a new installation or alteration then fair enough. The meter was installed in 1984 according to the interference warning card so hopefully they will fit one when they get round to swapping it out.

Interesting about the type of DB required - the one that's in just now has two vertical rows of the bottle type fuse holders with a main mcb, main bottle fuse and a RCD on a third row at the bottom. The updated equivalent would I suppose be something like this https://www.meteorelectrical.com/distribution-control/consumer-units-accessories-1/2-row-7way-cu-c-w-main-b63-mcb.html

Looks like the ESB have got this sort of thing pretty well tied up and it's their way or nothing else, which is fair enough. Thanks for the advice.

Cheers

 

[Murdoch]

we can still fit a plastic REC2, same as DNO

Is that the case? I thought the scams deemed isolators as switch gear and should be metal. That said I haven’t fitted one for a very long time 

 

[Andy™]

Is that the case? I thought the scams deemed isolators as switch gear and should be metal. That said I haven’t fitted one for a very long time 

the reg only refers to enclosures / switchgear etc to a specific BS. a REC2 is not that, so no need to be non combustible

 

[binky]

 It was the encouraging to work live bit that surprised me but the ESB chap was probably only trying to give me a step for a hint.

working ve is easy enough with care - you should see what the DNO guys get upto! 

 

[Risteard]

working ve is easy enough with care - you should see what the DNO guys get upto! 

Oh - I forgot to mention that part in my post. The ESB are not a DNO but a DSO!

 

[kerching]

we can still fit a plastic REC2, same as DNO

Strange as it is and even harder to believe but EVERY time I feel that an REC2 or REC4 is required one suddenly appears and since it has obviously been fitted by the DNO prior to my arrival it is compliant with their regs and out of scope of 7671

on a alight tangent I never use double pole blocks having been very close to one when it decided to fracture.  I only use single Pole LUCY MLNS blocks

 

[Phoenix]

on a alight tangent I never use double pole blocks having been very close to one when it decided to fracture.  I only use single Pole LUCY MLNS blocks

One of my hates is people who use two double pole blocks for three phase, with red and yellow in one, and blue and neutral in another, not sure what the official line is, but goes against the grain as I was always taught that the front connection in a double pole block should always be neutral, not live, which seems quite sensible when the front one sometimes tries to jump forward when you take lid off if tails are under stress

 

[kerching]

One of my hates is people who use two double pole blocks for three phase, with red and yellow in one, and blue and neutral in another, not sure what the official line is, but goes against the grain as I was always taught that the front connection in a double pole block should always be neutral, not live, which seems quite sensible when the front one sometimes tries to jump forward when you take lid off if tails are under stress

I've never actually encountered that scenario......but it sounds wrong

another pet hate.......brittle single Pole blocks where the corners break off OR the little "goal post"retaining hoop snaps off and lid won't  fit correctly L. At least the Lucy ones come with blanking pieces that you slide in and can turn around for 6/10mm tails as there is a hole at one end

 

[binky]

always detested double pole blocks :redcard



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