EV charging still got a Looong way to go..

[Sparksfly]

My T5 does 17/19 urban 32mpg motorway....200mpg freewheel

 

[Murdoch]

And it’s all about cutting out unnecessary journeys too.

 

[bladerunnerpv]

I can see us having a small EV for all our local runs but keeping our ICE for long trips or trips needing more space

I think this is the way we shall go. I have a perfectly good 5yr old diesel hyundai which is very comfortable to drive, reasonably economical, and I shall keep until its run into the ground, and a 10yr old petrol jazz which will probably have be replaced with an EV, when it finally gives up. Unfortunately EV car prices currently make that not viable.

Hopefully next bit is not too OT...
Diesel is still needed for haulage and farming applications so I can't see zero supply in the near to mid term even with ICE cars being banned by the govt, both industries are on fine margins so I don't foresee much demand for EV from those sectors for some time yet, unless diesel prices become really prohibitive, in which case I think the govt will have to reduce fuel tax or give some tax rebate for them, not that they have so far...

But as ICE cars are replaced with EV there may be a tipping point at which petrol/diesel supplies may become increasingly uneconomic to distribute and in a worst case the charging infrastructure will also not be ready for surge in EV demand.

The more remote towns and villages will probably be hit first with low supply as it becomes uneconomic to run a fuel station and paradoxically will also have the least use for EVs due to range problems. OK replace 50% of the pumps with EV charging points, but which forecourt wants a car sitting there for an hour? Markets will adapt, yes, but my instinct is that rural will suffer first and suffer most in the transition.

The other issue is income for the govt. Much revenue comes from fuel duty and this needs to be replaced to retain services and benefits, so if ICE's are banned how are EV's going to be taxed in the future to replace this revenue?

Some form of charge per mile of road usage?
i) read the odometer at MOT's send the data to govt who send you a bill?
ii) a widget on the car to track vehicle mileage with GPS, again send the data to govt who send you a bill?
both could be expensive to administer though.

In order to replace fuel duty directly it would need to be applied at point of use though, much as we pay some duty each time we use the petrol station.

Easy to apply duty at a public charging point since customer is billed already at point of use, not so easy for home EV points, although perhaps there could be meter on the home EV output too or supply of data to govt.

Electricity could be viewed as a fuel, and so EV's could be fitted with a charge-up meter to tax the electric used (replace volume of fuel with 'volume' of electric). Given that the electric 'tank' is a bit leaky (batteries don't hold their charge 100%) that's possibly a bit unfair. Would seem doable in principle but again not so readily point of use

Introduce a tax on no. of panels or kWp a property has, applied via poll tax?

The road tax step is only just the beginning....

 

[Murdoch]

The amount of fuel duty per household is about £1k

That a lot of tax to raise and EVs will need to pay a similar amount to fill the black hole

 

[johnb2713]

Went to a wedding yesterday. 180 miles round trip. M1/ M62/B roads.. Didn't check last night, This morning Clock reads 52.6 mpg.
Kia sorento 2.2 AWD....

Is that not a diesel?

 

[johnb2713]

Hopefully next bit is not too OT...
Diesel is still needed for haulage and farming applications so I can't see zero supply in the near to mid term even with ICE cars being banned by the govt, both industries are on fine margins so I don't foresee much demand for EV from those sectors for some time yet, unless diesel prices become really prohibitive, in which case I think the govt will have to reduce fuel tax or give some tax rebate for them, not that they have so far...

Haulage it seems will be going EV in the future, have a look at prof David Cebon from Cambridge University on youtube. It seems that theres going to be overhead lines in the left lane of the motorway and trucks will have an automatic catenary system to collect power. They will have onboard batteries to get the to/from the motorway. Scania and Volvo have produced trucks that are cheaper to buy than their diesel equivalent, a lot cheaper to run, better performance and have auto drive capability when on the motorway communicating with the trucks surrounding it.
Agriculture will probably have to go the Hydrogen route as per JCB's developments, they will of course have to take the hit on cost.

The other issue is income for the govt. Much revenue comes from fuel duty and this needs to be replaced to retain services and benefits, so if ICE's are banned how are EV's going to be taxed in the future to replace this revenue?

Some of the revenue raised is used to fight climate change, once ICE is gone that will no longer be needed. I would guess road charging will be the way to go.

Easy to apply duty at a public charging point since customer is billed already at point of use, not so easy for home EV points, although perhaps there could be meter on the home EV output too or supply of data to govt.

That would be so easy to avoid, home solar, home made wallbox etc.

Electricity could be viewed as a fuel, and so EV's could be fitted with a charge-up meter to tax the electric used (replace volume of fuel with 'volume' of electric).

I cant see that working in reality

Given that the electric 'tank' is a bit leaky (batteries don't hold their charge 100%) that's possibly a bit unfair.

Petrol evaporates, both petrol and diesel go off over time so it's not that different.

Introduce a tax on no. of panels or kWp a property has, applied via poll tax?

I can hear the arguments now about shading, clouds from the factories and powerstation obstructing the sunlight etc.

The road tax step is only just the beginning....

Absolutely it is.

 

[johnb2713]

The amount of fuel duty per household is about £1k

That a lot of tax to raise and EVs will need to pay a similar amount to fill the black hole

Nah, they will just keep increasing the tax on ICE vehicles, that'll do it

 

[Andy1733]

Is that not a diesel?

It is. It's a big heavy 4 wheel drive tank. Seats 7.
Bugger the electric car and save the planet when I can burn the dirty stuff.

 

[johnb2713]

It is. It's a big heavy 4 wheel drive tank. Seats 7.
Bugger the electric car and save the planet when I can burn the dirty stuff.

Yup, and I would expect 50+ MPG from it too.
Years ago I had a Pajero, I used to run that on used veg oil, absolutely incredible. From the chipshop, through a filter, into the tank and off we went, 5p per litre LOL.

 

[binky]

The best short term answer is to encourage the sale and use of frugal petrol engines and tax the xxxx out of Chelsea tractors.

There there is the issue about scraping perfectly good vehicles and making EV’s -that’s not good for the planet either

I can see us having a small EV for all our local runs but keeping our ICE for long trips or trips needing more space

I don't think anyone is doing the scrappage scheme anymore , so older vehicles will just end up at the scrap yard eventually, after they have had a natural end life.

 

[Gian]

I did a trip to Essex yesterday, on the way back I called in at Gonerby Moor on the A1, they have a good number of Tesla Chargers, it must be 10 or 15 and the queue of Tesla's waiting to charge was huge. At the other side of the services there are chargers for peasants like me, straight in, picked up a charge while I had lunch and on my way home. I can see we need a massive improvement in vehicle charging infrastructure I have seen quite a few charger installations that are out of order and queues forming. I have 2 EV's a BMW i3 and yesterdays hack was my wifes Mitsubishi Outlander PHEV. The PHEV is a great car for us, she does around 6 miles per day to and from work with a longer trip 2 times per week. 99% of the time it runs electric, the longer trips and one off's like yesterday it runs the engine. Our 360 mile journey it returned 42.1 MPG with 1 charge en route.

I do believe yesterdays trip would have been more stressful if we had been in a BEV.

Good morning has anyone played with v2g chargers using the chademo connector. I have seen this bidirectional chargers at about £3k . At the end of the day if you can tap off the 400vdc battery I was thinking of using an solar inverter as a solution.

 

[johnb2713]

I know a couple of people who are trialing the V2G with Nissan Leaf’s. I’m considering using a Nissan Leaf as a mobile battery for my shop premises, charge up at him on off peak or solar, drive to the shop and feed the shop with very cheap electricity.

 

[Murdoch]

On the BBC now they have just said there are 6000 public EV chargers in the U.K. now.

Me thinks we need considerably more

 

[binky]

I think this is the way we shall go. I have a perfectly good 5yr old diesel hyundai which is very comfortable to drive, reasonably economical, and I shall keep until its run into the ground, and a 10yr old petrol jazz which will probably have be replaced with an EV, when it finally gives up. Unfortunately EV car prices currently make that not viable.

This is probably the way we will go, when we eventually decide to get rid of the 'run around' . But as the little Nissan diesel is still running fine, that won't be for a while. Hopefully EV will have dropped in price by then. In the meantime, I've taken to driving slower/ smoother to reduce CO2 emmissions, and save money of course. 50mph uses 30% less fuel than 70mph.