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You really believe that ?
No! Pretty sure I can get out of the loan agreement with ATL so have been looking around and discovered a local course in Edgware - looking at doing the C&G 2365 level 2 and going from there. 

I found the thread on the other forum and had a good read - I think I have just demonstrated perfectly how not to research a company - but **** happens..

 
Any advice on getting some on-job experience? I don't smell, and am a Liverpool supporter so good company..

Further down the line, of course. I would be useless now..

 
That's the problem with forums - you ask a question and you get the answer depending on someone else's prejudices/grievances - whether it's relevant or not.

I'm guessing you have stats to back up your theories - how many accidents have been caused by people that have completed these courses?

Do you know what mate? I have a family to feed and need to retrain, so I'll do one of these courses and make sure I am legally entitled to work. Part of that legal requirement does not seem to be asking 'Andy' with 19,111 posts if he approves, so I'll skip that if that''s OK? You don't own the profession, you just work in it. 
This is one of the problems we face, desperate people who think electricians earn a fortune. All lies spread by training centres.

I think you need to look at other forums do a search ATL training feedback there is quite a bit on other forums. I am afraid I agree with Andy on this short courses are ruining our industry and many others.
Research is everything, if your going to spend well earned cash make sure your getting what you pay for.

 
That's the problem with forums - you ask a question and you get the answer depending on someone else's prejudices/grievances - whether it's relevant or not.

I'm guessing you have stats to back up your theories - how many accidents have been caused by people that have completed these courses?

Do you know what mate? I have a family to feed and need to retrain, so I'll do one of these courses and make sure I am legally entitled to work. Part of that legal requirement does not seem to be asking 'Andy' with 19,111 posts if he approves, so I'll skip that if that''s OK? You don't own the profession, you just work in it. 
mmmmm,

I think you will find that doing a course that helps you gain compliance with a building regulation will NOT entitle you to legally work as an electrician,

compliance with the EAWR will be more fitting.

 
its even longer when the college your at stops running ur course (2330) so that when you want to do lv3 you got to wait a year for them to run the equivalent lv3 course. on the plus nvq2 and 2330 together is better just hope i get a space because might not even get on the nvq next year yet :( ***** stupid college. even fked our prac exams up but thats a long rant.

best bet is finding your local college ringing them up and asking what there running but as importantly where you can go with it because no point in you doing your first qualifications lv2 probably then getting stuck in limbo not being able to get work or do a lv3 qual.

 
Oh dear - my posts are quite embarrassing to re-read. In my defence I do not think that electricians earn a fortune. I was a photographic technician in my last job, and that industry has completely changed so I need to re-train. As it is unlikely there will be an alternative to electricity in the next 30 years, I thought it would be a good choice. It will take a long time, but I am willing to put the hours in and do it properly.

My annoyance was Andy suggesting I was going to do a 2 week course, then completely re-wire a house and electrocute a family of six in the process. 

I can appreciate why people don't like badly trained newbies from profit driven training centres - but that's not what I'm doing.

 
This is one of the problems we face, desperate people who think electricians earn a fortune. All lies spread by training centres.

Research is everything, if your going to spend well earned cash make sure your getting what you pay for.
Can I just clarify that you are saying that nobody should retrain as an Electrician, and there is no way that you can possibly make a living out of it?

Good to know... 

 
Can I just clarify that you are saying that nobody should retrain as an Electrician, and there is no way that you can possibly make a living out of it?

Good to know... 
Let us,just as an example imagine an investor looking to open a new business. The very first thing he will do is to look at the potential market, and how much of that he can gain through his product or services. If the market is saturated in that area he will move to one that is not.

Now look in your phone book and see how many electricians are in your area. Those are the self employed ones, all the others are working for peanuts because there are many more not working.

 
Can I just clarify that you are saying that nobody should retrain as an Electrician, and there is no way that you can possibly make a living out of it?

Good to know... 
more or less,

unless you are willing to do an apprenticeship on an apprentices wages,

which everyone seems to bleat

'I have a family to feed , I cant afford it'

so, dont come f'ing crying to me you were thick as **** and picked a stoopid job when you left school and now you have no useful skills so think you can gain a lifetime of knowledge in 5weeks,

apprentices dont just learn at college, or in books, or on site,

they learn the knowledge of their spark.

 
The domestic market is ruined.

The people who have ruined the domestic market are now trying to branch out into the commercial, industrial and more specialist electrical market sectors.

Hopefully they will give up or be stopped by being prosecuted or sued before this actually happens.

TBH, would I re-train to be a spark now, no.

Yes you can earn say £30 per hour, but NOT 40 hours per week 45 weeks per year, unless you have something special to offer, which you are not going to get re-training mid life unless, you already have a specialist transferable skill set that you can reinforce with the electrical installation training.

From reading your posts Modfather, this does not seem to be your situaiton?

To be working full time you would be down on the say £15 per hour, then out of this comes all your overheads, stationary, scam fees, internet, computers, book keeping, accountants fees, companies house fees, if you are a company rather than a sole trader, phones, insurance, tax, vehicle, holiday pay, fuel, training, tools, books, test gear, sick pay, advertising, chasing payments which believe me you WILL have to do, sales calls that you cannot charge for, warranty work that you cannot charge for which could well be the fault of the materials not you, need I go on?

Look at what you earn now, look at putting a business plan together for all the stuff you will need to buy, learn, sort etc. then look at the market, and look at the way into the market, in the domestic sector, this is to start price, that is you need to be cheaper than everyone else until you build up a client base these days, so forget the £15 per hour, and base this plan on say £10 per hour.

That's £370 per week or just over £16k5 pa.

Out of which has to come your costs.

Now, is that such a stunning business to be buying into?

 
This is like those adverts that they showed in Eastern Europe that tried to put people off coming to Britain.

 
Don't become a Spark - it's **** and the streets aren't paved with gold. That seems to be the message I'm getting.

 
I get the feeling from your replies that you think that we are trying to keep the trade a closed shop... I can assure you we aren't. ...

I joined this trade 10 years ago, I'm 43 now so you can see that there's a gap.. during that time I was an instrument technician, repairing avionic equipment for the MOD. I left that secure, reasonably well paid job because I felt that I wouldnt have seen it out to my pension; I decided to jump while I was still young enough to get into something else... I really wish I hadnt

But then again this job is great... no security, no holiday pay, no sick pay and no pay rise for the last however long...... I think I need to increase my rates, but if I do that then I wont win many jobs

 
Don't become a Spark - it's **** and the streets aren't paved with gold. That seems to be the message I'm getting.
I've been doing this for longer than I care to think,

I drive a 10yo van that's worth <1k ,

I live in an ex-council house [in a cheap area] ,

I havent been abroad on holiday for 6years,

I struggle to pay my mortgage some months, [inc the fact my wife works full time]

I live a fairly frugal lifestyle if truth be told, its the only way I can survive, never mind actually live,

why do I stick at it.?

its the only thing I know how to do,

No, Im not blaming anyone for my situation, in the past when work was bad I simply went to where the work was,

Ive travelled a few places,

the reason I dont do it now?

a 6yo and a 7week old, and the wife is fed up with a stranger coming through the door every few months just so the mortgage gets paid,

and I'm getting a bit old for it these days tbh.  :|

 
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