Fire alarms.....confused

[welchyboy]

Hi all

i am currently starting a job which is a 3 bed house, next door to a day nursery, the owner of the nursery has bought this house and plans to build an extension between the two buildings and create one big nursery, i am currently in the process of re-wiring the 3 bed house

first, as this is planned to be completed before the extension is built (bit ass about face but anyhoo) on the plans it shows the rooms changed to how they will be when the build is finished and i am wiring them to suite this, this includes emg lighting and smoke alarms.

I dont normally get involved with fire alarm systems other than domestic really, but on the plans it states 'mains fed battery back up smoke alarms to be installed as per drawings, supplied from local lighting circuit' and it shows a typical ld3 system in the circulation areas of the stairwell etc (no call points or anything). the plans have been approved and stamped!

However in the existing nursery a two wire, 24v system with an independant panel is in place,

obviously when the building is joined there will be two incompatible systems in place.

Shall i bring this to her attention or am i making a fuss over nothing?

Is this system thats on the drawing to be installed?, i thought it was the job of the fire officer to visit the site and dictate the system to be installed or would this of happened before the plans were stamped by building control?

any help would be great!

 

[NozSpark]

I'd say something..

Can't you wire the same mae of detectors, sounders and call points as the existing system and extend that,,,, wired as new zones?..... Ready to connect up once the extension has been built

 

[welchyboy]

well thats what i would expect to happen, but the buildings are a different layout and i have really only priced from the drawings as was detailed, i only thought of this whilst i was on site to be honest.

better to speak up now i think

cheers

 

[Evans Electric]

You have to bring it to their attention ( don't know who you mean by "her") is that the architect ?

Fire alarm , I would say , is the responsibility of the designer and/or owner, not the local fire officer . They can and will, of course, turn up when its finished and say "this is not acceptable" As we had in an earlier thread, I would point out that you are the electrician , not the designer, or owner so just like the plumber or carpenter , you do what the drawings ask for and what you have quoted for .

If they have site meetings thats the best place to mention the FA , you will have done all you can then . (However they probably don't invite you to them!!)

Just to finish, I agree with you , there should be only one system throughout . Either extend the existing system or scrap it and go with domestic linked alarms throughout , or take advice from a FA company , none of which is your problem , just point it out .

 

[NozSpark]

The fact that this building has a different layout to te other has no relevance,,, it's proposed use and number of stories is much more important,,,, unless this new building is accomodation only (for the proprietor)?

 

[Evans Electric]

He says itsto be one big nursery, Noz, so it needs a FA system thoughout the two IMHO .

 

[Doc Hudson]

The fact that this building has a different layout to te other has no relevance,,, it's proposed use and number of stories is much more important,,,, unless this new building is accomodation only (for the proprietor)?

What about main entry - exit points, if it is put on one system, shouldn't a main panel (with zone indications) be located within the vicinity of a main exit point? I presume at the moment two buildings two main entrances?

Doc H.

 

[NozSpark]

He says itsto be one big nursery, Noz, so it needs a FA system thoughout the two IMHO .

That is what I recommended in post #2

 

[septiclecky]

Hi alli am currently starting a job which is a 3 bed house, next door to a day nursery, the owner of the nursery has bought this house and plans to build an extension between the two buildings and create one big nursery, i am currently in the process of re-wiring the 3 bed house

first, as this is planned to be completed before the extension is built (bit ass about face but anyhoo) on the plans it shows the rooms changed to how they will be when the build is finished and i am wiring them to suite this, this includes emg lighting and smoke alarms.

I dont normally get involved with fire alarm systems other than domestic really, but on the plans it states 'mains fed battery back up smoke alarms to be installed as per drawings, supplied from local lighting circuit' and it shows a typical ld3 system in the circulation areas of the stairwell etc (no call points or anything). the plans have been approved and stamped!

However in the existing nursery a two wire, 24v system with an independant panel is in place,

obviously when the building is joined there will be two incompatible systems in place.

Shall i bring this to her attention or am i making a fuss over nothing?

Is this system thats on the drawing to be installed?, i thought it was the job of the fire officer to visit the site and dictate the system to be installed or would this of happened before the plans were stamped by building control?

any help would be great!

The owner of the nursery may have plans to join the two and make a big nursery but have they got planning permission to do this as it means a change of use to a domestic property?

Secondly the rules applying to fire regulations have changed and it is down to the property owner to carry oy a fire risk assessment and not the local fire officer.

If he did get permission to join the two properties the 2 will need to be connected to the existing fire alarm system as one system.

 

[welchyboy]

Thank you everyone, all points noted! just an ass covering exercise really, will suggest to the owner as above and she can please her self

I just didnt want to get caught up in a situation where the job is finished and i get the blame if she gets pulled on the alarm, but i have my quote in writing and copies of architects drawings so that will cover me hopefully

 

[Evans Electric]

I think it certainly will Welchy , specially as there is an architect involved , you're doing the right thing by pointing it out but you're not receiving a designer's fee , you're doing the work specified on the drawings .

I would say in the case of that job, the artichoke should be stating that a fire alarm system to BS**** (whatever) is installed.

Architects can be funny buggers to deal with sometimes . We quoted for emergency lights to a new fire escape metal stairway at a school once . When we went to site we could see how far from the wall the stairway was , the little 8watt fittings were shown on the wall , miles from the stairs, no good at all .

We politely raised it with the architect , his reply was, " I,m sorry , who are you people ? Electricians........right ... you're not paid to think ..I do that so just follow the drawings"

So we did . :C

 

[kerching]

[quote name=Evans Electric;235423 " I' date='m sorry , who are you people ? Electricians........right ... you're not paid to think ..I do that so just follow the drawings"

So we did . :C

I would be telling him that he was signing the relevant part of the BS5266 Cert AND I would be ensuring that he received no help/advice at all ever again. If he puts a socket over the sink on his drawing then wire it and tell him it's wrong and get paid again for putting it right. As I have said before definition of Architect......Architect ....from the Greek Archi [ Bloke ] and Tect [he who does not know]

All Architects shoud spend 3 years on site, 6 months Elec, 6 Gas and heating/plumbing, 6 joinery, 6 roofing, 6 bricklaying 6 months realising their place in the real world...rant finishes... :coat