Weird cables - Swapping Mains Fire Smoke Alarm

[thecount]

I'm about to order this wired alarm system as it can network but I just went to see how my existing fire alarms are hooked up and there appear to be three wires? What/how would I connect the new one when it arrives? This old one isn't linked tot eh other one on the landing as I know for sure it only goes off downstairs.

This is the old one:

 

[ProDave]

That's standard. Blue is neutral, Brown is Lice and White is interlink.

Note you should not mix different makes, there is no standard for the interlink signal so one make probably won't work with another.

 

[Phoenix]

Pull the cables a bit (switch off first to be safe) and there will be a connnector block tucked up there, it should have been mounted on the pattress that you have to ask for separatly. What make are you replacing with?, and note Daves comments about not mixing and matching (I bet it is linked to your other one, just either incompatable or not connected right). Take a picture of the wiring on the hidden connector block when you get it out.

 

[thecount]

hi there, I'm replacing with the powered version of this one:

https://amzn.eu/d/7IonSka

That's standard. Blue is neutral, Brown is Lice and White is interlink.

Note you should not mix different makes, there is no standard for the interlink signal so one make probably won't work with another.

thanks ! - this is the one I will be replacing it with, the powered mains version though? I'd hope it will just be live nad neutral.

https://amzn.eu/d/7IonSka

 

[thecount]

actually just pulled the cables out and seen this!

 

[Fleeting]

I would recommend you get an electrician involved as there is no evidence of a back box to enclose those connectors (the existing fixings seem to give this away). Fire Angel are a poor brand and I would recommend you use Aico a brand which gets unanimous approval.

 

[thecount]

Just to say, I’m not planning on mixing, the two smoke alarms are to be removed in preference with the fire angel ones. I would hope since they are network WiFi ones then they will have no bearing on the previous old system which is 15 years old?

 

[Murdoch]

Fire Angel - no

Aico - yes

 

[UNG]

Working on, modifying or upgrading what could be classed as a Life Safety System is not really the place to be practicing DIY and the savings are probably not worth the potential risk to or loss of one or more lives should a fire occur
You would be better getting a professional in who will have the experience and manufacturers training to set up the detectors correctly especially where they are wirelessly interlinked
I would echo the comments of others regarding Aico detectors and the quality of the product and the tech support is well ahead of others in the market

 

[binky]

The only smoke detectors I've ever had problems with are FireAngel. They might have fixed their issues by now, but I would also recommend AICO every time.

 

[ProDave]

Another vote for Aico.

Apart from generally being good quality and reliable, they are also designed properly in that they have a neat surface mounting base with a built in terminal box. None of that silly poke it through a hole in the ceiling nonsense of those Fire Angel alarms (99% of people don't fit a terminal box above the ceiling)

 

[thecount]

Fire Angel - no

Aico - yes

Can it connect a network via Wi-Fi and have notifications the same as angel? On my phone? Also can I mix battery operated ones with mains ones? What so wrong with angel out of interest?

 

[UNG]

Can it connect a network via Wi-Fi and have notifications the same as angel? On my phone? Also can I mix battery operated ones with mains ones?

So the questions you are asking clearly demonstrate that having an app is more important than having reliable fire detection, every Aico detector that has audiolink can be downloaded individually to the Aico Audiolink app ok it is not on Wi-Fi but how often do you really need to know the alarm status in real time when you are in the pub

If you really need realtime information then you could install the Aico gateway and smartlink modules to the detectors like the housing associations do but it is all down to what do you want to spend then and what benefit you perceive you get from it

Given the range of detection options with the Aico 3000 series why would you mix and match mains and battery detectors, I generally find that if you are fitting a detector on a ceiling the you are not normally that far from a mains connection, may be your question should be can I fit wired and wireless detectors and interlink them all

Again I will suggest that you need to consider your safety and that of others before attempting a DIY lash up where the consequences of a failure can be devastating

What so wrong with angel out of interest?

Reliability

You have the professionals on here all recommending Aico so educate us and tell us why you want to use Fire Angel and why they are better than Aico in order that we might learn something we have overlooked

 

[thecount]

So the questions you are asking clearly demonstrate that having an app is more important than having reliable fire detection, every Aico detector that has audiolink can be downloaded individually to the Aico Audiolink app ok it is not on Wi-Fi but how often do you really need to know the alarm status in real time when you are in the pub

If you really need realtime information then you could install the Aico gateway and smartlink modules to the detectors like the housing associations do but it is all down to what do you want to spend then and what benefit you perceive you get from it

Given the range of detection options with the Aico 3000 series why would you mix and match mains and battery detectors, I generally find that if you are fitting a detector on a ceiling the you are not normally that far from a mains connection, may be your question should be can I fit wired and wireless detectors and interlink them all

Again I will suggest that you need to consider your safety and that of others before attempting a DIY lash up where the consequences of a failure can be devastating

Reliability

You have the professionals on here all recommending Aico so educate us and tell us why you want to use Fire Angel and why they are better than Aico in order that we might learn something we have overlooked

Okay, very valid points, but the question I was trying to get an answer to was why is this one so much better than the angel? Our angels selling substandards, then they seem like they’ve been around for awhile

 

[binky]

Okay, very valid points, but the question I was trying to get an answer to was why is this one so much better than the angel? Our angels selling substandards, then they seem like they’ve been around for awhile

substandard, debatable, but how much is your life worth? I know AICO are quite a but dearer, but there's reasons for that. It's also fair to say Fireangel did sell dodgy units for quite a while, and as tradespersons we don't forget such things.

 

[UNG]

Okay, very valid points, but the question I was trying to get an answer to was why is this one so much better than the angel? Our angels selling substandards, then they seem like they’ve been around for awhile

So Aico don't batch test their detectors, every Aico detector is tested / checked before it leaves the factory which I believe is something the competitors don't do. Aico's failure rate is miniscule
I can't recall ever being called about a problem Aico detector but I have been called out to problems with others

I remember one of the Elex shows a couple of years back where the Fire Angel guy's selling spiel was "We do everything Aico do but 30% cheaper" never mentioned how much better their detectors were than Aico as a selling point I can't think why

We are not stopping you fitting Fire Angel detectors but there will be no point coming back here to moan if they fail told you so can be so cruel

 

[SPECIAL LOCATION]

Can it connect a network via Wi-Fi and have notifications the same as angel? On my phone? Also can I mix battery operated ones with mains ones? What so wrong with angel out of interest?

Battery only devices are generally not acceptable to comply with building regulations..

e.g. if you are doing some work that requires building control to sign off,
then from past experience battery only Fire Angels are not acceptable..

Had this a few years back with a customer who been a bit stitched up by a builder doing a two storey extension but had forgotten to account for any smoke alarms..

Customer wanted to fit Fire Angel battery devices..
Building control said not compliant..

Needed to be Mains-powered, Battery back-up interlinked..
The interlink could be hard-wired or wireless.. But the devices could not be battery only!

Customer rang me I fitted a mix of hard wire linked and wireless linked AICO's
Building control happy.. customer happy!

DIY'ers generally only get to fit a few smoke detectors in their life time..
Electrical contractor generally fit bucket loads..

And from that volume of experience they do tend to find which are the best build quality, reliability, have the best termination points for cables, get the least call backs from customers about false alarms faults etc..

So tend to only recommend the better products..
If you want to fit your fire angel choice, go ahead, nothing is stopping you..
Me personally I would never supply fire angel..
I have only supplied AICO for more years than I can remember..
Current have 4x Aico's in my own house, as I want to be sure my family and loved ones are safe!

 

[ProDave]

What so wrong with angel out of interest?

I will start. A friend installed a set of Fire Angel interlinked smoke and heat detectors each with a "10 year life battery" Just over 5 years old they all started chirping. I took them apart and each one the battery was flat.

I contacted Fire Angel to say your 10 year battery life alarms have only lasted 5 years. The answer I got was it's actually 5 years and 1 month from the serial numbers and they only have a 5 year guarantee.

NEVER AGAIN will I recommend anyone to buy a Fire Angel product with "service" like that.

 

[ProDave]

Aico do lots of mains and battery options, 10 year battery ones for somewhere you can't get a mains supply to, and they do wireless interlinked options to talk to other hard wired options. A very versatile system.

 

[Fleeting]

It would be very rare for a group of electricians to agree unanimously on anything we normally argue the flip over anything so the fact that no one is siding against Aico speaks volumes. I think that is probably a unique situation.