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Simply put the only way it will change is to put any potential and serving government minister through one of their own apprenticeships and let them experience the drivel they have left this country with. Anything else is no more than lip service and hot air. 

I wonder what this country will be like post brexit when the penny drops that there are no quality tradespersons and many are not interested in joining? Then they suddenly want to import labour, how quickly will they want free movement of people then? 

We are no more than lambs to the slaughter with the decisions that have been taken on our behalf over the years. 

 
Our trade (us) are already the losers, there is much talk of a skills shortage, and the problem is it is really a "skills" shortage we are having, those of us of a certain age will remember when an electrician did everything, general wiring, alarms, fire alarms, cctv etc. Now that isn't true the modern "electricians" are not trained properly, have limited experience and quite often limited knowledge, alarms, fire alarms, cctv etc is all to often seen as a "specialist" field.

Recently I came across a company who do training in making off and installing mineral insulated cable as it's not taught these days in college! Back in the day every electrician was taught how to work with this cable, nowadays it's "specialist".

I feel that there are too many people involved in the trade who's only vested interest is in making as much money as possible, be it running short courses, inventing new regs to allow the increasing amendments/changes to the regs, (these generate money in book sales) or  the likes of the NI who came up with the whole "domestic installer" scheme, this allowed people to join the NI who would previously be unable, thereby generating more money!

The top tiers of the NI are run by people with little or no proper electrical experience, take LFB for example, anyone who has followed his stories cannot fail to have spotted that things don't add up.

In one article he was describing how he used to make wooden bending blocks for conduit, trouble was that following his description you end up with a conduit kinker!. In another article he writes about his time at college and how he attended college while working, yet in a later article he states that he was forced to fund his final year himself and attend night school after his employer refused to pay due to him skiving off. Reading all of his stories together, this guy has little more than 8 years on the tools, yet he's the one who seems to be calling a lot of the shots.

Speaking to a number of modern "electricians"  you begin to get an understanding of their lack of knowledge, now I'm not blaming these people themselves, no I place the blame firmly at the door of the powers that be! Some years ago we had all those training centres spring up, remember the adverts in all the papers? "train as a plumber and earn 65k a year". lots of people who had lost their jobs invested their redundancy money in these courses, very soon they found to their cost that plumbing in the real world was vastly different from life in the training centres. Very few of these people actually stayed in the trade.

Now we are seeing the same in our industry, training centres springing up everywhere, adverts telling you how much you can earn as an electrician and large numbers of people paying good money for worthless courses, with an increase in people chasing a limited amount of work together with a large number of migrants who know virtually nothing about our electrical systems yet take on work that they should not be attempting.

In a nutshell there is indeed a skills shortage, however as I said earlier it's not a shortage of electricians, it's a shortage of properly trained electricians and sadly until such a time as someone decides to put training before profits there will be no change.

 
EXACTLY the point i was trying to make.. If the unions had not been deserted by people that took the hard won "rights" they ALL enjoyed for granted, then NONE of this would be happening. It would be either a peoper apprenticeship or the union would not recognise you as an electrician and no-one would employ you as one. How it should be...

john..


The deserting of the unions was down to the union leaders, take Scargill bled the mine workers union for all he could get up until a few years ago, during the 80's strike he bought himself a new jag from NUM funds while his union members were out on strike and struggling to feed themselves and their families and then he ultimately put them out of work in his quest to bring down a government. Look at any union and the leader is usually paid many times more than any of the rank and file members and quite often gets a very good perks package as well

A lot of people wised up to the unions in the 80's and 90's and what the leaders were about and voted with their feet

The problem with the industry now is the NICEIC, it has somehow been allowed to assume the mantle of the be all and end all of the electrical industry and is trying to set standards by circumventing government committees and generally lowering the qualifying standards to boost it's membership. And much of it done under the Labour Governments much vaunted safety product called Part P

The days of the good all round electrician are long since gone with the division of the industry and so many skills now deemed to be specialist that were once all part of the electricians job and really it goes without saying that no apprentice these days would ever get the level of training needed to be a good all rounder

The industry these days is more interested in regs and courses, Elex this year has got the gruesome twosome pronouncing on the contents 18th edition (not due for publication until July 2018) and a search of the web shows the training companies gearing up for the next money maker and the IET will also get it's few pounds worth. This industry is being killed by those whose only interest is the money that can be made from those who are on the tools who have had what they can earn depressed by the influx of under trained operatives

 
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Hi There,

I cannot really agree with;

"The deserting of the unions was down to the union leaders, take Scargill bled the mine workers union for all he could get up until a few years ago, during the 80's strike he bought himself a new jag from NUM funds while his union members were out on strike and struggling to feed themselves and their families and then he ultimately put them out of work in his quest to bring down a government. Look at any union and the leader is usually paid many times more than any of the rank and file members and quite often gets a very good perks package as well"

Thatcher was determined to close the mines. It was admitted recently [with the release of papers under the "30 year" rule, that Arthur was spot on, bar about TWO with his figure of 80 odd pits that were to be closed. IF Arthur HAD beaten the government, all those people would still have jobs, AND we would still have a steelmaking and engineering industry. As soon as the mines closed the docks here were piled high with imported coal, and i MEAN piled high. It was a disgrace. Apart from the mines closing, it took with them entire communities. The devil makes work for idle hands, and then they wonder why their is such a problem with drugs... Now, i have never been attracted by the stuff, i do not even drink, but all those youngsters that would have had an apprenticeship, bought a motorbike, to go to tech on, secure career and be able to aford to buy a home and raise a family, what about them?? there was just an abandoned generation of kids..

Why you think the germans are doing so well?? Not stupid enough to close THEIR industries, and indeed, bought ours....

john..

 
It wasn't just coal mines though was it ?     I was in the Rhondda Valleys years ago ,  the very LAST Welsh pit was just above Treherbert , The Meardy I think, I believe they knew the others were finished.     I've banged on about this before but ..as with all the other industrial cities & areas  ...I can only quote Birmingham which in my lifetime went from a city that made anything from a pin or pen nib  to ginormous electric generators .  There were coal mines , steel works   , drop stamps , cars ...trucks ...vans...railway stock ...switchgear ....tools ...jewellery ... engines ...motor cycles ...bicycles....screws ...nails....tyres....weapons ...   steam engines..sporting guns ...handguns.....narrow boats ....if it was made from steel it was made in Brum .    Smoke & fumes  blackened the sky  and the rivers were polluted with industrial waste  and everyone that left school was scooped up into the dark satanic mills .  Everyone was an engineer of some description.

There was also a great spirit of entrepreneurism  with people like James Watt , William Murdock , Joseph Lucas ,  messers Guest , Keen & Nettlefold,  Herbert Austin , Vellocette ,  Lloyds Banking .

Now their time has gone , nothing left , 48% of the indiginous  population have disapeared somewhere  ...the rivers are clean , the passage of time has blown away the smoke & grime & half the city has been handed over to incomers from foreign lands and strange customs , who walk the streets all day with seemingly no need to work .

School kids are on time delay relays ......they are pushed through more & more further education , then "Uni"  then ...........  what ! 

 
The EETPU lost its way with the amalgamation with the AEU, they bled the EETPU dry clearing their debts. I was a convenor for the EETPU, after a blazing row with Eric Hammond I quit my membership. The union became insurance salesmen and couldn’t give a damn about the membership.

I’ve been a member of two other unions, nothing to do with the electrical trade. The NUJ and the NGA because of my alter ego as a photographer.

 
I've always found it interesting how foreign managment can employ the same people and end up with the most efficient car plant in the world........

As for training and elecgricinas could do anything, I found out the other day we shouldn't be fitting fire alarms unless registered with BAFE yet my AC status insists I have the appropiate BS standard. Specialisations have been allowed to be hi-jacked by quangos who work for a fee of course...

 
It's interesting that we/our industry as with many others are being broken down into specialist areas yet there is no such thing as a specialist politician, they appear to have no trouble in changing their skill set and heading in a different direction at every cabinet reshuffle or after political life, who'd know that the chancellor of the exchequer was a news editor? Do you think he had to retrain on a short course to be a specialist? 

 
Specialism's, its a funny thing,

In the early 2000's I actually landed a job  on the IoM fitting pyro, as the firm had  no one else that could work with it, they had about 20 sparks of varying ages, their QS was about my age, maybe a couple of years older, I got paid more than him, :)

I never looked at it as being a specialist job, :C

 
To be honest, i think that there are a VERY large number of people out there, that CLAIM to be "time served" with all kinds of C+G certs, but that actually are not qualified in the least. THAT i would venture, is why they cannot do simple things that are VERY MUCH part of being an electrician. Pyro, and bending conduit with the bends in the right place... etc

I am no electrician, but i was shown how to do pyro when i was about 14. Not saying i could just go and do it now, but give me a set of the tools, [the windy handle stripper thing etc] and i would soon figure it out again!!

john...

 
Yes  we used to install Gent fire alarms  for years ..and other systems,  all in pyro ,  until  the easy peasey FP200 type cables appeared  & it became  "Specialised "

Same with Security alarms , insurers only accept alarms by NACOSS installers .

Emergency lighting is next . 

 
Well I was in the local training centre looking at apprenticeships. Apparently there is no funding for over 25yr olds. The apprenticeship was for electrical installation.

 
Apparently that is correct. If someone aged over 25 wants to do an apprenticeship, either they or their employer has to pay for it.. Cannot see the problem though, i had to pay for everything i did [might have been subsidised though, i have no idea]

john..

 
Well they talk about a skills shortage. The local college runs free courses in Mickey Mouse subjects like level 1 retail and then fail to fund a course you'd want.

 
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