Got a call today about some damaged cables ........

[SPECIAL LOCATION]

That is the problem, they do bugger all, in fact on the occasions I have attempted to complain about NI registered contractors all I get told is that it is the customer who needs to complain not me, just in case I have a grudge against the contractor in question. No I don't have a grudge against anyone,what I do have is a damn sight more knowledge than the client, which is why , I am the one ringing up if the client knew enough about electrics then one would presume he'd have done the job himself and not had a cowboy in!

And speaking of cowboys,one of those DI's actually had the temerity to tell me I wasn't properly qualified as I didn't hold an NVQ 3! FFS I may not have an NVQ, but with almost 40 years experience and a city and guilds after serving a full apprenticeship I would like to think I know a 'little' bit more than most of these clowns!

if you want to complain youre best hope is they are not registered with NICEIC but claim to be.... even so, nothing will be done about the dodyg work

This concept keeps on being banded around every so often on this forum...

BUT the fact is in almost every area of work / service provided by any company...

It is ONLY the customer and the business providing the service/product/work who are party to a contract who can be involved in any dispute about the work done..

Anyone else actually has little or no legal rights to complain about anything at all...

I can't complain or raise a dispute with a plumber/painter/gardener/kitchen fitter/car mechanic/cake maker/dress maker/hairdresser.... etc...

who hasn't done any work directly for me that I have paid for..

But I could advise a customer about all of the numerous areas of non compliance with BS7671 that I have identified..

and recommend they put in a complaint to the trade body who the previous contractor was a member of! 

And..  if someone is making false advertising claims about who they are..

what they are authorised to distribute / maintain..

who they are members of.. etc..

Then that is irrespective of any contracts for work that may have been agreed between customer 

So its NOT just an electrical problem!!!

We all just need to move on and realise if the customer doesn't want to complain..

then there is bu99er all we can do..!!   :|

even if its wired in wet string & phone cable.....  :shakehead

:C   

 

[Murdoch]

if you want to complain you're best hope is they are not registered with NICEIC but claim to be.... even so, nothing will be done about the dodgy work

Its not my responsibility to complain ................ BUT I do think that the CPS's should really act on such "claims" 

 

[phil d]

This concept keeps on being banded around every so often on this forum...

BUT the fact is in almost every area of work / service provided by any company...

It is ONLY the customer and the business providing the service/product/work who are party to a contract who can be involved in any dispute about the work done..

Anyone else actually has little or no legal rights to complain about anything at all...

I can't complain or raise a dispute with a plumber/painter/gardener/kitchen fitter/car mechanic/cake maker/dress maker/hairdresser.... etc...

who hasn't done any work directly for me that I have paid for..

But I could advise a customer about all of the numerous areas of non compliance with BS7671 that I have identified..

and recommend they put in a complaint to the trade body who the previous contractor was a member of! 

And..  if someone is making false advertising claims about who they are..

what they are authorised to distribute / maintain..

who they are members of.. etc..

Then that is irrespective of any contracts for work that may have been agreed between customer 

So its NOT just an electrical problem!!!

We all just need to move on and realise if the customer doesn't want to complain..

then there is bu99er all we can do..!!   :|

even if its wired in wet string & phone cable.....  :shakehead

:C   

So in reality all this talk of 'professional bodies' is a load of bowlocks then isn't it! we may as well not bother joining ANY scheme or organisation because clearly none of it either matters or is fit for purpose. If a solicitor finds a client has been badly advised by another solicitor he, the solicitor CAN report it, same with doctors and I believe vets, also accountants, just to name a few. We it would seem are the only ones who don't seem to care and that makes the whole thing absolutely bloody pointless!

Think about ringing a DNO with an issue, they would much rather speak to an electrician than a customer, in fact in the early days when I used to tell the client to ring the DNO most of the time they'd ask if the spark was on site and if so, could they speak to him.

What exactly, apart from a way of generating massive amounts of money is the point of all these 'clubs', or for that matter training courses if when we come across some not just rough work, but often dangerous work, we can do nothing about it? I've seen work done by diy'ers that is far better than some of the so called 'professionals', then of course we come into the realms of  'duty of care', if  I attend a job and find work not related to what I am doing but that could present a danger, then what if the client doesn't want to report that work, is it the only dodgy work that spark has carried out, I doubt it.

It's a bit like seeimg a drunk get behind the wheel of a car and saying 'well I won't report him, he's only doing it to get home tonight because the weather is bad'  well actually he isn't, that drunk has done it before and will continue to do it until he either kills someone or gets stopped. We are constantly told to only use a registered electrican *** it is  the only sure way of getting the work done correctly, well no it isn't. you have as much chance of getting a cowboy by using someone off an approved list as you have of taking a blind stab on the internet or in your local paper. One of the best examples of this was on DIY SOS a few years back, Billy the spark had done his usual spouting about registered electricians and above his head in an area that when finished was to be inaccessible without tearing out a ceiling, or the roof above, was 2 30 amp joint boxes, I watched with great interest as several sockets were fitted onto a loop of cable, the ends were then connected to these joint boxes and the ceiling then boarded over. HMM, now wasn't there something in the regs about joint boxes being accessible? I rest my case!

 

[Sharpend]

Your are missing the point Phil, it is not about standards nor safety that these schemes exist, it is merely a tick box exercise to show that the industry did something about the politicians relative that got a belt and no more. 
For all the schemes talk about improving and making electrics safer is no more than towing the party line, we see it time and time again in politics and the people are fed up with it, so become disconnected and only those that participate in voting have a lot to say about the policies they voted for, our industry is no different, the scams spiel is irrelevant to those sparks who don’t register and therefore those that are, being the minority, have something to say about the spiel they are served but as with voters this voice is not heard. 
 

it will take for ALL sparks to refuse to register before something changes, but this will not happen as the 5ww’s need these scams to verify their abilities, or should I say what they believe are their abilities. 

 

[binky]

 OK 2 points:-

1/ complaints from other contractors would be fine of half if them knew what they are talking about. Having completed 20 large contracts for the local council, I have had compliants from the council about 2 of the jobs completed. All complaints have been proven invalid after explaining the correct interepretation of the regs and proving my work is compliant. Basically whatever ******** contractor they have had in behind me  didn't understand what I have done, becuase they don't fully understand certain sections of the regs. More of case of 'they wouldn't do it like that' rather than there being any actual problem. So compliants, contractor to contractor, is always going to be a bit fraught as we all know regs have grey areas. Just look at how many dodgy EICRs we get on here. For this reason, it would perhaps be better if the scams offered independent assessments of any complaints, or at least sent someone out to have a look. 

2/ standards - part P attempted to address this but falls short. What we really need therefore, in my opinion, is tighter controls. It should be compulsory to hold x y z qualifications to become an electrician, and no one should be allowed to trade/ do electrical work unless fully compliant. Quals themselves should perhaps become harder, ie candidate should be able to demonstrate full understanding of regs  (such as the old 2391) or qualify at a lower level such as  electrical labourer.  .

The above may cost more money, but then, we would have the proper stauts that being fully qualified brings, and attract higher earnings. 

 

[phil d]

 OK 2 points:-

1/ complaints from other contractors would be fine of half if them knew what they are talking about. Having completed 20 large contracts for the local council, I have had compliants from the council about 2 of the jobs completed. All complaints have been proven invalid after explaining the correct interepretation of the regs and proving my work is compliant. Basically whatever ******** contractor they have had in behind me  didn't understand what I have done, becuase they don't fully understand certain sections of the regs. More of case of 'they wouldn't do it like that' rather than there being any actual problem. So compliants, contractor to contractor, is always going to be a bit fraught as we all know regs have grey areas. Just look at how many dodgy EICRs we get on here. For this reason, it would perhaps be better if the scams offered independent assessments of any complaints, or at least sent someone out to have a look. 

2/ standards - part P attempted to address this but falls short. What we really need therefore, in my opinion, is tighter controls. It should be compulsory to hold x y z qualifications to become an electrician, and no one should be allowed to trade/ do electrical work unless fully compliant. Quals themselves should perhaps become harder, ie candidate should be able to demonstrate full understanding of regs  (such as the old 2391) or qualify at a lower level such as  electrical labourer.  .

The above may cost more money, but then, we would have the proper stauts that being fully qualified brings, and attract higher earnings. 

I agree with you, but, there would be one problem with doing that wouldn't there. the scams, all they are bothered about is money, we've seen that time and time again, to them it is far better to have say 5000 poorly qualified 'electricians' that 2000 properly qualified ones, more members equals more money.

 

[binky]

I agree with you, but, there would be one problem with doing that wouldn't there. the scams, all they are bothered about is money, we've seen that time and time again, to them it is far better to have say 5000 poorly qualified 'electricians' that 2000 properly qualified ones, more members equals more money.

This is the problem with outsourcing compliance bodies to free market forces. It is also, in my belief, the root cause of the Grenfell disaster - the lack of truly independent assessment of standards without a commercial motive. 

 

[Murdoch]

This is the problem with outsourcing compliance bodies to free market forces. It is also, in my belief, the root cause of the Grenfell disaster - the lack of truly independent assessment of standards without a commercial motive. 

grenfell is the direct result of poorly worded regulations produced by the DCLG .....

 

[Sharpend]

grenfell is the direct result of poorly worded regulations produced by the DCLG .....

now where have I heard that before. ??

 

[Murdoch]

now where have I heard that before. ??

ha ha ha